"Help Needed on Command and Control game mechanic" Topic

Hopethis is the right place for this post…it seemed the most logical

I was having a conversation the other day with a long time opponent about command and control rules. More specifically about those mechanics that don't allow you to do everything you want during a game turn.

All we could remember that a) we'd played it and b) we liked it. The trouble is that neither of us could remember where we got it from. If anyone has any ideas based on the following vague clues please feel free to post them here

The mechanic concerned order transmission where you or your subordinates could : do what you want, sort of do what you want (but not exactly) , do nothing or even do something you didn't want, dependent on their rating

It could be from a set of rules or a magazine article (if the latter Miniature wargames, wargames Illustrated or practical wargamer)

Its probably old ( I reckon mid nineties at the latest otherwise I'd have a copy of them on my PC)

I've no idea what time period it is but think its more likely to be horse and musket onwards – I seem to remember we used them for a Napoleonic game but the command rules could have been borrowed from another period

Its probably not skirmish (given that it relates to subodinate commanders

I think the randomness was generated by dice as I don't recall mucking about with cards, poker chips or anything esoteric

Any assistance gratefully accepted – please feel free to ask questions as it may help jog my memory!

regards

Tonic

Well, Black Powder, specify up to three moves, roll the dice. Your command will get from 0 to 3 actions to try and complete the order. Or fail badly and you get a random action.

Or indeed Blitzkrieg Commander, where you can attempt to activate multiple times (rolling each time) but again have a risk of a random action.

A different approach for Horse and Musket period. Maps drawn for units/divisions at the beginning of the game, arrows pointing direction of movement. If you want to change order move/attack/defend then you send a courier with a new order. One model moves on the board to it's destination, can be delayed or killed with each turns die roll.
This is from Shako.

Beer And Pretzels Skirmish (BAPS) – "Buck" Surdu is a skirmish game that works on a very similar principal to what you describe. I remember it because it was the very first ruleset I purchased when I started mini gaming.

At the level of the game you were mostly working with Platoon command teams and Squad level leaders. So you may have a Lt. and Sgt. as platoon leadership and a squad leader and an assist-squad leader within each squad. If you have vehicles and/or support weapon teams, they usually had their own leadership.

Anyway, every "leader" has a base leadership number. To this you would add a d4 roll each turn. This gives you a total of "points" that a leader could spend to give each soldier under his command orders to perform an activity for that turn.

Your platoon leaders could give points to any subordinate leader or troops within his command as long as they are in his command radius. A squad or assist-squad leader could give points to any troops under their command as long as they were within his own command radius.

However, you didn't always have enough points to give orders to all of you troops. Those who didn't receive points or were out of command radius rolled on a chart for orders for that turn. These charts could say "Do what the closest soldier is doing" or it could send them off on a retreat or some unrelated task.

Link to John "Buck" Surdu site:
link

Beer and Pretzels Skirmish is about 3/4 of the way down the page.

If you have enough players, put one in charge letting the subordinates execute game play. Run the game double-blind, and you will have more fog and friction than you could ever imagine.

pjm

At the core of our game (Manoeuver Group) I guess you could say is the adage "2 out of 3 Aint Bad". Basicaly take a tank, at its the very basic level. It Can;-

Shoot, Change speed, Change turret Faceing (not tracking a target).

You can do 1 each half move. Supprisingly enough this is a good start. The real rules are a bit more subtle but you get the idea.

Commanders get sme abolity to re-activate dependong on what they wany their suordinate units tpo act. Panzers March always get through. "Tank Mike move left and take up hull down position" is less likely to get through.

mckroc – has sort of got it but frankley while it may reflect the worst troops ever NOT trained on a really BAD day, for the most part it is unrepresanative of a real army, as the midlessness of wargmers is inversely proportional to the number of players and is utterly chaotic.

You need to integrate the whole system just bolting on a system does not always work. On our own gane command and control is made harder by the movement system. It has more possibilities but that means more ways for the commander screw up!

If I understand the OP, he is asking if anyone can recall a game using the (admittedly vague) mechanics he describes?

Warmaster used that mechanic to if I remember correctly….

GDW Striker?
link

units are assigned an initiative level

only high initiative units are directly controlled by the player
the others must be given orders or led

changing a units orders could take more than just a few turns

hanks for all your replies theyve given me some ideas

Although Extra Crispy is right in that i was mainly trying to remember where we got a mechanic that we used in a game a long while ago (sorry for any confusion) any suggestions on similar mechanisms are equaĺly appreciated

I think WRG Ancients 7th edition used something like that… it was probably 25 years ago the last time I read it, so I may be mistaken.

Just picked up the free pdf of Black Powder thats on offer at the moment…it definitely looks to have possibilities…

thinking of combining it with a card activation system a la toofatlardies (and maybe their blinds mechanic too) for some generic command/move sequence rules…

Well its only taken me 4 years to find out the answer to my original question!

If anyone's interested it was an article in Miniature Wargames 58 by Rod Robinson called "Chains of Command"

In summary it allows the C in C (you) to give orders to the senior officer of each recognisably independent formation under his command (eg corps/wing, division, brigade, regiment etc – depending on the level of game you're playing)

Orders could be couched in the following terms

- Advance against specified enemy unit
- Advance to a specified point on the battlefield
- Hold present position
- Retreat to a specified point on the battlefield

(You could also issue more complex orders based on a combination of the above e.g. "Advance to the right around the base of Hill 101 and disperse the enemy infantry on that flank. Hold that position until support arrives, then advance upon the enemy redoubt by the village)

You would then roll dice to see how your subordinate interpreted the order(s) based whether they were above average, average, or below average and the complexity of the order.

Above average generals are usually likely to obey orders but average and below average commanders are more likely to misinterpret them

As an example an order to advance against a specified enemy could result in a variety of outcomes, from retreating whilst facing the enemy, staying put and requesting clarification to charging ahead and running out of steam before contacting the target unit.