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"Offensive T-Shirts at Wargame Shows" Topic


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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian05 May 2018 10:37 a.m. PST

Have you experienced a problem with someone wearing a T-shirt with an offensive image or message at a wargaming convention or show?

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 10:40 a.m. PST

Problem?

No

USAFpilot Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 10:46 a.m. PST

I really haven't noticed; can you give an example?

I think the 'Che' image wearing the beret is stupid, but I don't get offended by other people's ignorance.

MajorB05 May 2018 10:49 a.m. PST

No … ?

Night Owl III05 May 2018 10:52 a.m. PST

Can't say I've ever noticed, but then again it takes more than a T-shirt to offend me anymore.

Chuckaroobob05 May 2018 11:24 a.m. PST

No.

I almost bought a "Stalin" tshirt at the flea market for my boss but changed my mind.

Personal logo x42brown Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 11:32 a.m. PST

Define 'offensive image or message' with some definitions I might be the person wearing it.

x42

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 11:52 a.m. PST

I find the sight of a short 400lb guy wearing a black "5 Wiking SS Division European Tour" tee shirt pathetic, rather than offensive.
He thinks he's making a statement, but it's not exactly the one he thinks he is.

Not just that division. All the SS Scum divisions I've seen.

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 12:01 p.m. PST

Sure, I've seen it. Offensive: no, I don't waste time contemplating what other people wear.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 12:10 p.m. PST

I agree with Winston.

mghFond05 May 2018 12:13 p.m. PST

I too have never been fond of those SS tour teeshirts but no, I am not offended. It is a form of free speech though I do question their taste.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 12:21 p.m. PST

Offensive? Only if they keep wearing it without washing.

Dan

TSD10105 May 2018 12:28 p.m. PST

The hobby doesn't seem like the place to be if one is so easily offended. There's lots of history various segments of the population would love to ignore.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 12:32 p.m. PST

A sadly missing French excellent humourist once said:"you can laugh of about everything but not with everyone".
Hardly I could really be offended by a teeshirt. Maybe praising something that actually would make me want ( if allowed) to napalm him,. Mostly as said pathetic or funny in an unintended way.
But this offending thing can easily happen in non UK continental less free speech countries where, nowadays especially, one gets in trouble for offending those in power/ or able to make a mess of it/ thought to be needed as clientele by those in power.
The formerly controlling ability of ridicule has sadly bern lost or got restricted.

princeman Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 1:02 p.m. PST

In the land of free speech it hardly matters what one wears other than to express their lack of good taste.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 1:05 p.m. PST

Never seen an offensive t-shirt at any con I have gone to. But then, I haven't been looking. Is this a problem? On the other hand, I have, but only in the olefactory sense, like CC states.

I'm with John in that I don't like SS t-shirts. I'm not offended by it, I just wonder what sort of idiot thinks that is proper attire, anywhere.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 1:14 p.m. PST

I wonder if they wear those shirts anywhere else.
Like to the mall, or to Church?

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 1:19 p.m. PST

No…and another 'why ?' for raising the topic…

Mick the Metalsmith05 May 2018 1:33 p.m. PST

Yeah, there are plenty of things on tee shirts I find offensive…mostly Deleted by Moderator without facts to back them up (usually about Deleted by Moderator). That they CAN wear them, I don't object to but I feel pretty bad when I see it. I am reminded that some people are too closed minded and intractable…they have drank their koolade and they remind how discourse is looking a lot more like Weimar Republik Germany than I would like.

The fantasists in SS shirts need not always be considered harmless in the long run. Even they can serve to normalize and goad bad behavior in others. I suspect most of them get worn not at the mall or church but on the way to Wal mart to buy tiki torches.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP05 May 2018 2:27 p.m. PST

Oh, good! Now we can have the T-shirt police.

Old Glory Sponsoring Member of TMP05 May 2018 2:45 p.m. PST

In the area where I live there seems to be a "fetish" for "heavy" women in tee shirts that are one size to small, with cartoon characters from long ago on the front? Tweedy bird, Flintstones, bugs bunny,etc.
The shirts always seem to be dirty and have a perpetual ketchup stain somewhere?
Not offensive, but always amazing??

Regards
Russ Dunaway

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 3:02 p.m. PST

No. But I have a serious problem with people looking around for something they can find "offensive."

zoneofcontrol05 May 2018 3:24 p.m. PST

First, they came for my t-shirt and I said nothing.
Next they came for my blue jeans and I did nothing.
Then they came for my tighty whities and everyone ran screaming in the other direction.

Blessed are those that are "permitted" to find offense with someone else's opinions.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 4:31 p.m. PST

I try not to worry about what other people wear on their tee shirt. What we do is history, so is reenacting, should we care that someone reenacts SS units because they did war crimes? Should we care that someone does Romans because they were just about as bad as the SS? Or troops from the Soviet Union? It's history don't be offended, take an opportunity to learn and allow others freedom of speech too.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian05 May 2018 4:40 p.m. PST

No…and another 'why ?' for raising the topic…

It actually came up in the other topic on gaming attire at cons.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 5:01 p.m. PST

It's history don't be offended, take an opportunity to learn and allow others freedom of speech too.

Who's curtailing anyone's freedom of speech?

Oberlindes Sol LIC05 May 2018 5:37 p.m. PST

Who's curtailing anyone's freedom of speech?

I agree with Bowman. Telling the tshirt wearer that you're offended is an exercise of your free speech. That is not an infringement on the tshirt wearer's free speech.

KPinder05 May 2018 5:55 p.m. PST

Russ D, sounds like you've been spending too much time in Walmart.

TSD10105 May 2018 6:51 p.m. PST

Then they came for my tighty whities and everyone ran screaming in the other direction.

With one guy calling out "I didn't know they made them in a scale that small!"

Sorry, I'll see myself out.

darthfozzywig Supporting Member of TMP05 May 2018 6:59 p.m. PST

Definitely seen tasteless shirts at cons: Nazi fetish stuff, profanity, sexually explicit stuff.

Mick the Metalsmith05 May 2018 7:15 p.m. PST

So my discription of what is offensive was too offensive? Smeg!

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP05 May 2018 7:58 p.m. PST

I don't think I've ever seen an offensive image, much less one on a t-shirt.

How could an image force me to have a certain reaction to it?

TSD10105 May 2018 8:15 p.m. PST

So my discription of what is offensive was too offensive? Smeg!

Bill has a no politics rule.

Legion 406 May 2018 7:38 a.m. PST

But I have a serious problem with people looking around for something they can find "offensive."
That seems very true to me. Especially in today's "social" environment, etc.

However, even though at a wargame convention. Wargames are probably taking place that some of the models, etc. represent SS units. That goes along with historical accuracy, etc. My Father even fought against some SS units in WWII France.

However I would not wear an SS t-shirt, etc., anywhere, for a number of reasons. If for on other reason some may think I support Nazis, Neo-Nazis, etc. Which let me clearly state I and pretty much all of us here don't !

But generally I'd bet save for a very few, like us here. The vast majority of the population wouldn't know anything about who the SS was, their battles, history, etc. So that may be a "saving grace", if one was looking for a "bright" side ?

corzin06 May 2018 8:26 a.m. PST

not sure if offensive is the right word, but i agree about all those SS/Nazi shirts

foxweasel06 May 2018 11:54 a.m. PST

I don't think "offensive" is the word I'd use, "pathetic" or "f@?ing sad" would be more appropriate.

Goober06 May 2018 4:58 p.m. PST

Offensive smells – quite often.

Never seen offensive clothing at a con (aside from the whole Salute Nazi affair a few years ago). I've seen some stupid T-shirts and some poor dress choices, but nothing offensive that I can remember.

21eRegt Supporting Member of TMP06 May 2018 5:52 p.m. PST

Offended, no. Buzz kill, yes. I recall a convention game where I was happily taking Malta with my Fallschirmjagers when two smiling "gentlemen" walked up to watch wearing 1st SS Panzer t-shirts. The whole mood at the table went from relaxed and laughing to total silence. They left and the relatively light game resumed.

Now in the real world I've been totally offended by t-shirts I've seen or seen pictures of but a description would violate a few TMP laws.

RudyNelson06 May 2018 7:39 p.m. PST

No, what may be regarded as politically incorrect to the dredges of society are common at shows.
Wear an opposite no slogan on a shirt if you must complain. I just will not let either side spoil my fun at the show.

CSherrange07 May 2018 4:48 a.m. PST

Personally offended? No. But I question people who wear SS shirts or Swastika shirts.

Also, most I have ever noticed someone catching flak for wearing something was a picture of Sherman with a slogan "Southern BBQ tour". So it definitely was a change for what someone was personally offended by.

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP07 May 2018 7:59 a.m. PST

It's a mixed bag for me. I see the guys that wear the SS shirts at cons and think…"Why?" especially since most of them wouldn't make it in the SS, but then again I have worn a tshirt with a ANV ACW battle pic on the front. While no one objected to that, I know that someone would find it "offensive", (that whole confederate flag thing ya know…)

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP07 May 2018 8:01 a.m. PST

For me, an offensive shirt would be one that the user is wearing that:

A: Is torn and ripped and shredded to the point that I see his sweet flab and armpit hairs.

B: So dirty it has it's own special "Aroma".

C: Has blatant curse words on it. I say that because really, people (especially kids) don't need to see that crap at game conventions.

masm6110 Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2018 9:02 a.m. PST

I would say Mr. Murphy sums up my position on this topic.
Neat, clean and none of George Carlin's seven dirty words.
( which some of which are more tame as time has marched on)

-Mike

USAFpilot Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2018 11:35 a.m. PST

Murphy brings up a good point about "torn and ripped and shredded" that has me thinking about the latest fashion fad of buying new jeans that are pre torn, ripped, and shredded. Not only do I think that buying pre torn clothing is stupid, it must be truly offensive to someone who is poor and can not afford new clothes.

brucka07 May 2018 1:30 p.m. PST

I'm just not seeing Grant, Featherstone et al. not acting or dressing like gentlemen/ladies.
Dress does seem to sometimes enforce some civility. These tshirts embody the opposite- whether the wearer is a great person or not.
It certainly helps convention/centers make business decisions if a bunch of faux biker gang looking/smelling dudes are roaming around scaring families even though 'harmless'. Conventions are in the public domain after all and we all get tarred with that neo-nazi brush. If you cannot think of a good reason to wear that shirt if asked on camera, then maybe you deserve the lack of social approbation that seems to get labeled as curtailing free speech. It seems to be forgotten that the majority of gamers are white, privileged older males, why the need to antagonize others and isolate wargamers more in society? We seem to like good press in local papers and TV and complain when what we do is not understood. In summary, actions have consequences unintended or not and white older dudes that SEEM to have violence or nazi fetishes are a little concerning to the rest of society today.

Legion 407 May 2018 2:57 p.m. PST

I see the guys that wear the SS shirts at cons and think…"Why?" especially since most of them wouldn't make it in the SS,
Many at wargame conventions couldn't make it in any military. E.g. only @ 30% of draft age persons in the US would be able to pass the tests, physical, etc., to join the Armed Forces …

TSD10107 May 2018 5:59 p.m. PST

Should we start asking Belle & Blade not to attend HMGS shows as a vendor since you can purchase T Shirts from his stall that some people might find offensive?

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP07 May 2018 8:26 p.m. PST

The Nazi fan-boy shirts are in really bad taste.

Asking Belle & Blade not to display the Nazi fan-boy shirts seems reasonable to me. If a convention does not want to project that image for the convention, it is perfectly within their rights to manage their convention-running business as they see fit.

Legion 408 May 2018 5:59 a.m. PST

Well since it's a wargaming convention … there should be "Offensive" & "Defensive" T-shirts … evil grin

MadBob Supporting Member of TMP09 May 2018 6:38 a.m. PST

Im going to have shirts made that read "Offensive" on the front and back. That way everyone can be offended.

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