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"Looking for 28mm Caesarian era Javelinemen skirmishers" Topic


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715 hits since 27 Apr 2018
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LostPict Supporting Member of TMP27 Apr 2018 9:16 a.m. PST

I am new to the Caesarian civil war era and have just bought Hail Caesar and Age of Caesar supplement. Looks like I need some units of Javelin armed skirmishers for Caesar's legions and wondered who makes appropriate folks for traipsing around Gaul and Germany? Thanks for the help.

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP27 Apr 2018 11:39 a.m. PST

Phil Barker writes about this army, he says, "skirmishing javelinmen could be Spanish caetrati, German, Numidian or Greek."

Mars Ultor27 Apr 2018 11:54 a.m. PST

I hope that you get some more definitive answers from others, but references that i"ve seen in Caesar often just say "the auxiliaries". He campaigned in Spain and Gaul, so I would _imagine_ that he cut deals with the local friendly tribes used their troops as skirmishers, as he did with their cavalry , which is better documented. That at least was the typical Roman modus operandi. So I would imagine that a wargaming army could have javelinmen from a variety of different places, depending on where they are campaigning.

You can also check some of the DBA lists to see if they list nationalities. IIRC, they are based on Phil Barker's research, which is very reliable as far as I know. HIs book _The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome_ (150BC to ??) is found on Ebay for not too much and is a wealth of information.

Edit: Well, Bobgnar writing in simultaneously has his Phil Barker handy. So there you have it.

Mars Ultor27 Apr 2018 11:59 a.m. PST

As to the models, I'd use Victrix's new Numidians, Celts, Greeks, and Iberians. I have some of these and they are very nice. Unless you don't like plastic. But there are many other manufacturers.

Prince Rupert of the Rhine27 Apr 2018 12:43 p.m. PST

yep local auxiliaries in native dress depending on the theatre of operations they could be Spanish, Numidian(Moors), Gauls, Germans, Thracians or Greeks. It gives you the chance to paint up something other than endless ranks of Roman heavy infantry.

wmyers28 Apr 2018 11:40 p.m. PST

We have to also remember that a great many of those "Spanish" were, in fact, Romans who had settled in Spain. Their appearance may be much more like the legion than punic wars era Spanish.

LostPict Supporting Member of TMP29 Apr 2018 7:56 a.m. PST

Thanks for the advice. I bought the Barker book. I think I am going to buy some Old Glory Greek Javelinmen.

wmyers30 Apr 2018 4:30 p.m. PST

Which Old Glory Greeks are you looking at? I have some and they are a good head smaller than 28mm.

They are undersized 25mm. They would work with Warlord's Greeks, but not with Warlord's Caesarian Romans (nor Agema's, nor Victrix's, nor Wargames Factory's and not really, but sort of, Old Glory's Caesarian Romans).

What makes are you using for the rest of your army?

LostPict Supporting Member of TMP01 May 2018 6:40 a.m. PST

I am wishy-washing between buying the Old Glory Caesarians or the Warlord Caesarians. I like metal and lower cost, but Warlord plastics are tempting and have shield transfers. For the OG Greeks I was looking at the ones in their Hellenistic Punic Wars line PPG-07 Light Javelinmen.

Mars Ultor01 May 2018 8:59 p.m. PST

Lost Pic,
Some people are fixed on metal because it feels "like a figure should". I find myself liking plastic more and more because metal is top-heavy and infantry and cav alike are easier to magnetize when plastic.

But if plastic is not a deal-breaker for you, then may I suggest that you do some of OG and some Warlord? Warlord makes very good plastic Caesarean legionnaires for your basic core units (of which you need many)and from which you can get more poses that Old Glory. No too many poses, mind you, because the figure are posed similarly, but enough. I used the pilum guys in back and the gladius guys up front. The other elements, like command elements, you might want to get from Old Glory, because the Warlord ones have a single type with Apulo-Corinthian helmet, no signifer, and no tubicern (only the cornicern, trumpeter), whereas OG has a command set you could get for several units. Command figs are also available from Warlord, but you have to buy them in a separate blister, and they are metal (but still very good and are the same size).

As to price, let me you both Old glory comes out to $1.20 USD per fig, whereas Warlord is $1.33 USD per figure of higher quality (unless you pay $50 USD for the membership or know someone who has it). AND you must consider that you pay shipping for OG and will not for Warlord if you buy over $20 USD (which you will). In addition to that, you can make a real killing off Warlord if you can wait until they do their 50% sale on plastic sprues. I think I bought 160 legionnaires and about 10 command sprues for about $130 USD – enough for a large scale battle with my rules.

Free shipping is often done with Victrix as well, and they have Iberians (SPanish), Gauls, and Greeks. If you're modeling Caesar's forces in Gaul, I think he'd be using more Gauls, Numidians, and Iberians, except for the specialized Cretans and Rhodians. Javelinmen could be got from almost anywhere, and for that I wouldn't be surprised that they were simply Gauls of other allied Gallic tribes, just like his cavalry. But whatever you like to do is certainly legitimate and no one could really argue.

Overall, I chose to go with Warlord and Victrix because they are beautiful sculpts and have more realistic poses. They are a pleasure to paint up. And if you compare any of the above nationalities from OG and WG, I think you'll find that Warlord is superior.

Hope this might help

LostPict Supporting Member of TMP02 May 2018 10:08 a.m. PST

Mars,

Thanks for the advice. I think that is probably the course I am going to take. I wonder how often Warlord does the sprue special?

Mars Ultor02 May 2018 12:35 p.m. PST

Only happened to see it a few times, but I've hopped on it every time I did. I think it's an irregular thing, but you might email them and find out if they're having another sprue sale soon.

The auxiliary guys and scorpio batteries might be better bought through OG, if I didn't mention that before in my rambling.

wmyers02 May 2018 10:05 p.m. PST

Mars is giving you some awesome advice!

For Warlord Caesarian Romans, there is a "starter army" box set. Wayland Games sells it at 20% off Warlord's price and it should qualify for free shipping.

It includes a scorpion and foot and mounted metal tribunes and shield decals.

The Warlord site shows the command metal pack in the pictures but it is not listed in the contents! (Mine is on order so I can confirm when I get it.)

It prices out to be the same as the half price sprue sale for the plastics.

The sprue sales are few and far between. Black Friday is often when they have one. The last sprue sale was buy two get one half price or something. Or buy three get one free. Not that great of a deal.

I will take some pictures of the figures you mentioned (old Glory. Warlord. Victrix Etc) so you can see size comparisons, sculpting, etc. I will post them tomorrow night.

I have all the figures Mars mentioned and they are all very good! Black tree Design makes 2 Republican sets called "praetorian" but are Republican and one is a command set and the other is entitled "Centurions" but have scabbards on the right but more decorative plumes on the Montefortino helmets and just regular mail (no Centurion chest discs). They are very nice! I will use them for optios.

Wargames Factory also made a Caesars Legions plastic 28mm set and it is not bad. It was their first ever set. There are online reviews but watch the price as they are out of production and prices may be raised a lot. The Wargames Factory set has arms that are actually throwing the pilum properly.

The Old Glory High Command set is very good for command poses, by the way. Not as nice of sculpting as some Warlord metal officers, but nice.

I would say the Old Glory and Wargames Factory go together very well as their helmet crests match famous carvings illustrating the helmet plumes.

For basing I use magnetic nickels (Canada) and metal bases for the horses. They add a bit of weight for the plastics.

wmyers02 May 2018 10:32 p.m. PST
wmyers03 May 2018 11:21 p.m. PST

Here are some images to start. I hope they help give you an idea of sculpting style, size, etc.

From left to right: Old Glory, Old Glory, Wargames Factory, Warlord Games, Blacktree Design, Victrix

From left to right: Old Glory, Old Glory, Warlord, Wargames Factory, Victrix

From left to right: Old Glory, Wargames Factory, Warlord, Warlord, Blacktree Design, Blacktree Design, Old Glory

From left to right: Old Glory Balaeric Slinger, Old Glory, Victrix (made with Velite body, Montefortino helmet and Warlord Games slinger arm from Caesarian Romans sprue), Victrix (as one beside it), Warlord Games Cretan Archer, Warlord Games Cretan Archer, Old Glory Seleucid javelinman, Warlord Games Caesarian Roman with Wargames Factory arm.

From left to right: Victrix, Agema, Agema, Old Glory (from High Command set), Old Glory (from High Command), Old Glory (from Command set), Warlord Games, Blacktree Design

LostPict Supporting Member of TMP04 May 2018 6:39 a.m. PST

Thanks for the photos. Those are very useful. I have ordered 2 of the Warlord Caesarian Roman Starter Boxes from Wayland along with some Warlord Celt Cavalry. I will probably add some Warlord Ancient Celt Javelinmen to the mix. All the advice has been very helpful.

wmyers04 May 2018 7:08 p.m. PST

Those 2 sets will give you a goodly number of figures.

The Warlod Celt cavalry are nice. (They use the same upper bodies from the foot figures with the legs moulded onto the horses – which is a good idea!)

The Celts can be used as opponents too. (You've got to have sets the Romans can fight!)

wmyers06 May 2018 11:37 p.m. PST

I just did a post asking about the antesignani in Caesar's army after reading about them and a link given was:

link

The original author I was reading was Eadie (http://www.erikds.com/pdf/tmrs_pdf_15.pdf) and he refers to the antesignani as being armed with "spears, javelins and gladius".

I wonder if Caesar's javelinmen would have been these chaps? (Or at least some of them.)

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