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"Was DeLancey's A Royal Unit?" Topic


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772 hits since 22 Apr 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2018 6:13 p.m. PST

DeLanceys Brigade wore red faced dark blue uniforms in the South. Did that make them a Royal Regiment? Were any blue faced regiments not Royal?

What would the musicians be outfitted in?

Neal Smith22 Apr 2018 6:53 p.m. PST

It wasn't part of the actual British Army. It was a Provincial unit formed in NY.

Here's a link to a well informed reenacting unit:
link

Here's a link to the main site:
link

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2018 7:42 p.m. PST

DeLancey's Brigade, unlike the Queen's Rangers (1st), the King's American Regiment (4th), and the British Legion (5th), was never taken onto the "American Establishment."

They were strictly a provincial unit (as Neal stated, above), originally raised to defend and garrison Long Island. The 1st and 2nd Battalions were sent south in 1778 and participated in several battles and skirmishes in the Carolinas. link

Hope this helps.

Jim

Jim

Supercilius Maximus Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 2:13 a.m. PST

The King's American Regiment, and at least one other Loyalist unit with a royal "patron", wore green facings, so clearly the same rules did not apply. Drummers of royal Regular regiments wore the King's livery (which, in 28mm, looks like yellow lace with blue dots – actually fleur-de-lys), on a normal red coat with the same blue facings. The Foot Guards had white lace with the same blue fleur-de-lys.

Hope that helps.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 2:18 a.m. PST

Bren, so a DeLancey musician would reverse the coat to a blue faced red, because it was not a Royal unit? Is that right?

historygamer23 Apr 2018 4:17 a.m. PST

Not sure anyone knows the answer to that. It is my understanding that later in the war an abundance of red coats faced blue made the scene and were handed out to Loyalist units.

I'll ask Todd if he knows any more on this subject.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 6:01 a.m. PST

I agree with historygamer. The blue facings were merely part of job lot produced uniforms. There doesn't seem to have been any real system why a Regiment received any particular color. It's not like any of these newly raised regiments were an "ancient corps".

GiloUK23 Apr 2018 6:59 a.m. PST

I had thought that latest research on De Lancey's is that they wore red faced green coats. Bill – that's why I painted the figures I sent you in that way.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 11:10 a.m. PST

Giles, Yes, Green is correct.

I had some 40 mm figures done in Red faced Blue and was going to use them as DeLancey's. I'll use them as something else.

What about the musicians?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 12:21 p.m. PST

Unless the unit has a rich colonel, I would give drummers the same cost.
The Perry Volunteers of Ireland Loyalist unit has drummers in lace, but that's a strange uniform anyway.

historygamer23 Apr 2018 1:29 p.m. PST

So mixed information so far, as the unit appears to have gone from green faced red, then red coats faced blue, then possibly back to green in 1782. Chartrand's book on Loyalists shows the drummer in 1782 in a green coat, faced red, no lace as the bill does not mention lace for button holes.

Awaiting Todd Braisted's thoughts.

historygamer23 Apr 2018 1:30 p.m. PST

Just got word from Todd, hang on as it is a lot more complicated than I just posted.

Supercilius Maximus Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 2:22 p.m. PST

Bren, so a DeLancey musician would reverse the coat to a blue faced red, because it was not a Royal unit? Is that right?

I would think it unlikely, but not impossible – as <<historygamer>> says, nobody can really say for sure.

historygamer23 Apr 2018 2:57 p.m. PST

Got good info from Todd if I can get my computer to cooperate. Stand by as it's good stuff.

In the meantime buy Todd's book – Grand Forage

Bill N23 Apr 2018 4:53 p.m. PST

It is moments like this that give me comfort that I went generic.

historygamer23 Apr 2018 5:03 p.m. PST

DeLancey's was like all other Provincials, 1777-1778, green faced white.

From 1778-1779, red faced green.

Green with unknown, laced facings from 1779-1780.

Red faced green from 1780-1782

And the famous red faced blue in 1783 only.

Me again. Todd believes the drummers would have wore the normal reverse colors, except for the red face blue then likely the drummer would be red faced blue. He also knows for sure that in certain years copious amounts of lace were provided for the drummers, soooo…..

historygamer23 Apr 2018 5:09 p.m. PST

I'd like to thank Todd Post for sharing the above info. If you haven't heard of his excellent book, here it is:

link

SashandSaber Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 6:15 p.m. PST

I think you mean to thank Todd Braisted, not Post.

historygamer23 Apr 2018 6:44 p.m. PST

Gah! Wrong Todd indeed. Thanks S&S. :-(

Todd Braisted is the man indeed. He is very generous with his research. :-)

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2018 8:54 p.m. PST

It is moments like this that give me comfort that I went generic.

thumbs up

I went with Mollo back in 1986. Blue facings.
I ran into a DeLancey reenactor group that had a … GURL!… in it. (Fetch the smelling salts.)
They're the ones who gave me the "pimp hat" meme, by the way. I came by it honest, Eric.
I even gave them a hand painted flag. It's very nice.

But anyway, I'm sticking with all generic, all the time, with my latest batches of Loyalist riff raff.

historygamer24 Apr 2018 6:27 a.m. PST

Given how their uniform colors flipped around so much, I'm not sure what a generic uniform for them, or any other Loyalist unit, would be. :-(

Bill N24 Apr 2018 8:30 a.m. PST

Are those trends the same for units serving in the south? Before the arrival of the British Legion I don't see much about loyalists in the south in green coats.

"Generic" may have different meanings to others. My plan is to have red coats faced blue, red coats faced green and one battalion of red coats faced yellow. One of the red coat faced green units will actually be the 63rd, but with a different command stand. With the British Legion, Brown's Florida Rangers and militia I should be able to cover the southern campaign.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP24 Apr 2018 8:57 a.m. PST

My "generic" units currently in production are singly based figures.
I'm using so-called "Continental" figures, since they have no lace, and look like they've been outside for a while.
Favorites are Old Glory and Kings Mountain.
My early Old Glory units have green coats because I wanted to do the Wyoming Massacre.
Now, since I'm doing Late War, they got red coats with blue and green facings. If I can be bothered to give them a flag, it's a plain Union. Drummers wear a plain coat.

historygamer24 Apr 2018 9:01 a.m. PST

So based on Todd's comments, it sounds like the DeLancey drummers wore lace.

Supercilius Maximus Supporting Member of TMP26 Apr 2018 1:51 a.m. PST

But no arsenic?

historygamer26 Apr 2018 4:00 a.m. PST

How about leather? :-)

95thRegt06 May 2018 5:23 a.m. PST

I'd like to thank Todd Post for sharing the above info. If you haven't heard of his excellent book, here it is:

link
>>
That would be Todd Braisted. Well known Loyalist expert and fellow reenactor.
My very first reenacting unit was 2nd Bn. DeLanceys 20 years ago. We wore red faced blue. BUT! They were wrong,and never changed to green after the documentation surfaced. One of the reasons I left said unit.There is no concrete evidence to support Loyalist musicians wearing lace or even bearskins. Most assume they did though. Theres a plate of a DeLancey musician in the latest Osprey on Loyalist units. Green faced red,no lace or bearskin cap.

Bob C.

historygamer08 May 2018 6:10 a.m. PST

Bob:

Todd said – He also knows for sure that in certain years copious amounts of lace were provided for the drummers, soooo…..

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