"HELP. Battle of Liegnitz 1760" Topic

I'm finding it very difficult to get my head around the Battle of Liegnitz 1760. The maps show little detail of the Austrian deployment, and the narratives I have either don't match the maps or each other. If any one can help I'd appreciate it.

According to Kronoskaf's account of Liegnitz 1760

link

the light troops were brigaded under Nauendorf. Was this a 'fighting division', or was it merely administrative, with troops being attached to the other commands? I can't find it, as a 'division' on any of my maps.

Numbers for Loudon's Austrian Corps are also hard to make head and tail of. Numbers vary from 24, 000 to 14, 000, the latter being Loudon's own figure of the troops engaged. Any help pinning down a better number, or the battalions actually engaged, and why, would be appreciated.

I have maps and narratives from the following books, amongst others (see link). My narratives are somewhat contradictory and don't seem to match the battle maps, even the ones given with the text. They are also pretty short. Are there better ones (in English) around?

The Army Of Frederick The Great – Christopher Duffy.
The Army Of Maria Theresa – Christopher Duffy.
The Wars of Frederick the Great – Dennis E. Showalter.
Die Schlachten Friedrichs des Grossen – Gunter Dorn & Joachim Engelmann. (I don't have a translation of the German text).

My full book list here

link

Lastly, just to check, the map in Dorn and Joachim's book (and on Kronoskaf) describes the two columns as Erstes Treffen and Zweites Treffen, which directly translates as first and second meeting or date. I presume this would also translate as first and second lines – is this a correct assumption?

Thanks in advance

James

My GHQ 1918 of vocabulary of German Military terms has the word treffenweise. Units disposed one in the rear of the other.

Also Caryle Frederick the Great seems to have 40pp on the battle.
My old copy has many uncut pages, to add to the struggle of trying read
And a map

Thanks Fred,

Probably first and second column then. Makes sense looking at the map.

just picked up both volumes (Kindle) £0.99 GBP

At that price it's got to be worth a look, though I bet the map is the same as the those on Kronoskaf – they seem to be the most common ones used.

Is there a map in one of the By Force of Arms books by Duffy? Unfortunately I have neither volume and they are now too pricey for me to buy.

Don't have either😟.. Will poke around some more

Hi Fred,

Scrub that amazon kindle purchase – not as advertised, or I've got it wrong.

I have the Duffy books, but am currently down in London for SALUTE. I will try and post on Sunday. I have walked this battlefield twice last year with friends, and found Dorn and Engelmann an excellent guide. Not quite sure where your problems lie, but I will get back to you when I get back!

I'll look at the map and send it along
Will also peruse the prose

I sent u an email w/ maps
It bounced

Fredavner@aol.com

Hi Fred, I've emailed you. Thanks, for your time and trouble.

Regards,

James

Do you have access to the Prussian General Staff book and map for 1760? I'm sure that all of the other sources mentioned start from that book.

No Jim, I don't have that.

However, I think I've got past the mental block caused by the statement of one column reaching Panten and refusing to advance further. It's the bit that didn't equate to any of the maps. Ignore that startling fact, have one or two more maps and it all makes sense.

I've had quite a lot of things sent to me, including maps and info about the light troops, which did not engage at Liegnitz.

Thanks, to everyone for their help.

Best Regards,

James

@ olicana,

I took the effort to gather the information on troop strength, and forces committed, that is provided in vol 12 of the Grosser Generalstab History.
The appendix of this vol 12, pp. 283 ff. provides the below (always good to have a close look at footnotes and appendix:

Total Prussian force 30,160 men excl. artilley
or 8 gren batts with average 500 each
28 line batts with average 600 each
78 escadrons with average 120 each.
Detailed records of the day are missing for this period, hence their average calculations.
From among this total force, the troops commited against Louden add to
4 gren batts, 16 line batts (incl 1 batt Saldern and 2 Forcade), & 35 escadrons, or total 15,800 or around 16,000 incl. the gunners.
The reminder opposed Daun and Lasy (approx 14,000).
Austrians unde Laudon:
by mid-August consited of regiments:
Inf: 2 batts Toscana, 2 Waldeck, 2 Baden-Baden, 1 Loudon (IR29!), 2 Preysach, 2 Jos. Esterhazy, 1 Simbschen, 2 d'Arberg, 2 Leopold Pàlffy, 2 Moltke, 1 Los Rios, 2 Marschall, 2 Batthyànyi, 2 Teutschmeister, 2 Angern, 1 Andlau, 2 Platz, 2 Wallis
each with 2 gren coys, Green-Loudon 12! calculated & Toscana with 6.
Total 33 batts & 54 gren coys. The gren coys grouped in 9 gren batts with 6 coys each.
Of this force 8 batts under gen. Wolfersdorf detached to occupy the heights of Hochkirch
25 line batts & the grenadiers (9 batts – possibly only 8 excl 6 coys of Toscana, believed with Hochkirch detachment as well)
Cavalry:
Althann & Kolowrat dragoons, Schmerzing, Trautmannsdorff, prince Albert, & Anspach cuirassiers with Loudon.
Alt-Modena & Karl Palffy cuirassiers with Corps Wolfersdorf.
Chevaulegers Württemberg, Saxe-Gotha, & 6 esc Löwenstein along with the hussars (Nadasdy, Rudolf Palffy, & Belthen) formed Corps Nauendorf with total 32 escadrons.
Furthermore 11 elite coys (often counted as escadrons with Austrian records).
These with the infantry grenadiers formed the Grenadier Corps, also referred to as Reserve Corps.

Based on strength report dated 18 August to which the losses of the battle are added totalled:
Inf with 24,800 men excl. Wolfersdorf adds to 20,000 present (Loudon claims no more then 14,000 muskets engaged)
the total 39 esc & 11 elite coys with around 5,600. Excl 10 esc Wolfersdorf total 4,400 present.
Loudons total force present approx 24,400 men not including the light cavalry under Nauendorf.

Cheers,
Christian