"Good Panzer IVG-J and Panther in 20mm?" Topic

Looking ahead to the release of "What a Tanker" from the Lardies at the end of the month, I'm wondering what TMP folks would consider worth having in the above types from various manufacturers.

Metal or Plastic, I don't mind which, as long as the Plastic ones are not inclined to lose small parts with handling, as I expect the nature of the rules will mean a lot of that!

I'm sticking with 20mm as we already play Chain of Command in that size so have terrain, buildings etc to fit.

Thanks

If you want easy assy. value for money & durability for wargaming, then go with the models from the Plastic soldier company [PSC] The Panther comes with zimmerit, but stands taller than other model Panthers. The Panzer IV, is not zimmeritted, but still looks the part. Otherwise, Armourfast make accurate but simplified models. Alternatively, there are diecast models available ready to go with varying price points. E-bay is certainly worth looking at.

I second PSC and ArmourFast. Both are serviceable wargame models, and a lot easier to get onto the table quickly than some of the model kits, such as Dragon or Trumpeter. And some of the die cast, Dragon, etc. can be found. I picked up a Dragon Tiger 2 at Fall In flea market for $15 USD!

There's also resin options. Ready to Roll from Rapid Fire and Brittania from Grubby tanks. Extremely easy assembly. Usually, body, turret, in resin main gun barrel, hatches, tracks and mg's in metal.
Ready to Roll have a base molded to bottom.
Brittania do not.
There are no pics of the Brittania ones on their website but I have them both if you want to see.

link

link

The all metal approach is losing steam, MMS just retired, and Skytrex was purchased. MMS never made a Panther.

If you want metal the best now would be SHQ. I have two Panthers from SHQ and they are quite adequate. Plenty Panzer IV options.

Now there are a lot of resin and combo/metal out there.

Plenty of die cast that are very nice.

The Revell PzIV H is a nice kit to put together. The way they modelled the schurzen allows possibilities to have sections, or all of it, missing with a bit of cutting. A lot lighter to carry around than a box of metal ones too!

The more recent revell kits are superb. You'll spend more time making one of their pz4h but it's a better model than any of the quick builds.
There again frontline offers cheap n cheerful resin you can spray and slap on the table.
Which is "best" depends where your priorities lie.

Armour fast and PSC work really well for me as simple kits

No doubt about it the Revell Pz IV is a brilliant kit and a joy to make, only downside is that it is a modellers kit so needs to be handled with a certain amount of care.
No experience of the Armourfast ones but have a small fleet of the PSC ones and they can fettle up into a nice looking workhorse.

ditto the Panther


L

Gluing a base to models helps with the handling problem. But you may not like the look?

Not as nice as Leon's, but game worthy. Beautiful work Leon!

Very nice I say :) Love the cast hull Shermans.
Can always go for magnetic bases………….

Have the option then of removing the bases when in urban locales.
L

Wrgmr1

Almost all the vehicles are are on the Grubby Tanks site….albeit in their kit form
link

I know as I loaded them up……

Cheers
Chris

Leon – great idea!

Chris, I quickly looked on the Britannia site. Thanks for letting me know photos are on the Grubby site.
I have a lot of your vehicles painted up, love them.
If you want some photos, let me know and I can take some?
The Shermans I posted are yours.

Grubby certainly do a range. Shame there are no painted examples on the site.

PSC have their noses in front at the moment I think. I guess Salute Recon is the next move for some face to face (?) comparisons of makes and materials.

All I have at the moment is a Skytrex Pz IV from when I used to play Crossfire which weighs about as much as the real thing.

Which is why I like Revell. But then I also like making kits.

We are the odd bods Deephorse, nothing like the smell of polystyrene cement :)
L

Whoops! Now I'm confused, Leon what make were the tanks in your photos? And were they painted with an airbrush?

PSC and yes airbrushed.
L

I like the Revell late Panzer 4. I think its a lovely model but quite delicate for wargaming purposes. That's the reason I tend to base all of my 20mm vehicles, of which I am aware is a Marmite thing . However it does help protect my delicate kits.
PSC IMO just have it about right with their later kits . A robust model but detailed enough to satisfy many of those who want realism and accuracy. The Panther is my current favourite of theirs.

I like the Revell late Panzer 4. I think its a lovely model but quite delicate for wargaming purposes.

I would disagree with that, but then I base all my vehicles. I go for plastic kits wherever possible because a). I like making kits, b). they are generally more detailed than resin models, and c). they are much lighter to carry around. If I find that a kit has delicate parts that might well get broken off (such as the width indicators on German softskins) then I will consider not fitting them. I can't remember the last time I broke a model in a game, after all they just sit there for the vast majority of the game time. Time spent handling them is minimal in comparison.

Never quite sure whats going on with basing vehicles.
They are in effect movement trays I dont glue my vehicles down to the base, if its textured theres enough grip betwix model and base to enable it to be moved around togther and then be removed for those road moves. When packing up vehicles go in their boxes and the bases in a seperate one.
Theres the magnetic option ( see above) or you can go very old fashioned and glue vehicles to clear plastic sheet cut a smidge wider then the vehicle width but with finger space added onto the length. Add a little flock appropiate to the game board and it virtually dissapears. Round off the corners and there you go.
L

I like magnetic basing, generally.
For vehicle kits i attach black plasticard which is a bit smaller than the area descrived by track contact with the table.
I then stick a couple of strips of steel paper to that.
I hadn't considered magnetic attachment to the hull base. I'll have to think about that.

Bear in mind that leon is a very talented fellow.

Never quite sure whats going on with basing vehicles.

For me the same thing that's going on with basing figures and guns.

if its textured theres enough grip betwix model and base to enable it to be moved around togther and then be removed for those road moves.

And that's what I seek to avoid. Even with the utmost care, when carrying several box files of models around in large holdalls some movement of models within the box files will occur. By basing everything only the bases will come into contact with each other.

or you can go very old fashioned and glue vehicles to clear plastic sheet cut a smidge wider then the vehicle width but with finger space added onto the length. Add a little flock appropiate to the game board and it virtually dissapears. Round off the corners and there you go.

Which is essentially what I do, except that I use 1.5mm ply and groundwork them to match the rest of my force.

I think your quite right on that point Deephorse, Id reckon 90% of model damage happens when they supposedly safe in their carry containers. Mine dont go very far very often, mostly to trade shows for display. Im fiddlying with fully magnatised carriers to latch on to the magnetic strips I use for magnatising the bases.
The point of the transparent basing is to avoid the 'taking a field for a ride down a roadway' look.
L

PSC and yes airbrushed.

Thanks Leon, I thought the finish was too good for brushwork. Sadly, I can't see myself running to the expense of an airbrush, even if I have finally come round to using Windsor & Newton Series 7 brushes for my little men! ;o)

Airbrushed models really are the gold standard these days.

I know the Germans had spray guns available in the field but I always smile when I see beautifully worked tanks and recall the black and white photos of Panzertruppen applying camouflage in Russia, using a rag on a stick! Think the of the derision that would ensue if anyone reproduced that level of finish on a model these days!

Trajanus,
Lots of German three colour camo was brushed, therefore with hard edges, rather than airbrushed and of course quite a lot of armour went out in plain 'gelb'. Good air brushed models are indeed good, good hand brushed ones can be just as good.
Paint most of my Allied stuff 'by hand'.
I never use sable for anything below 90mm scale, never found them to be particularly good for small stuff, than again Im hard on brushes ( a bristle thug ed)
L

I never use sable for anything below 90mm scale

Ah! Well I never use it for anything below 28mm but there again I need all the help I can get! ;o)

Just occurred to me that none of my 20mm stuff would have been painted with W & N. But what about these tanks? Oh the dilemma! :o)

Trajanus,
All my vehicles are brush painted. I would like an airbrush but cannot justify the cost and space requirement.
People like Leon and Piers are indeed the gold standard for painting. I just want to put out a decent looking model on the table.
I also base all my vehicles, guns etc. As stated by deephorse and Leon transport is the real problem. Most gamers will pick up the model by the base.

A couple of examples: NO where near Leon and Piers, but good enough for me.

wrgmr1,
Looks good to me :)
And dont forget Piers and I are pros, in Piers case its part time Im a full time proffesional so I dammed well ought to put the time, effort and kit into doing a decent job.
Its an unfair advantage but on the other hand I probably dont make minimum wage most weeks lol
L

Leon,
Thanks, I consider myself a decent tabletop painter.
I know you own Adler miniatures, but did not know you are a full time Pro painter, makes sense. You do amazing work!
We had a full time pro painter here on the west coast of Canada, he painted a lot of figures over the years. He always said he never made minimum wage. :)

Getting off topic and probably a dumb question but if not using sable what are you using?

And yes, envious, Leon gets better looking tanks in 20mm then I am getting with my 1/35th scale stuff :)

I use basic brushes, not necessarily sable. Light wash of camo done two or three times for depth.

This 251/10 I used a sponge cut to a small size.

wrgmr1,
Didnt mean proffesional painter, was in a former life but that was 75 and 90mm stuff, just meant proffesional in that I pay the mortgage working in the hobby. Im a figure designer but doing a half way decent paint job is part of the design process.
I used to know of a guy that used to do German 3 colour camo schemes on 1/35th tanks using art pencils………..amazing they were.
Tend to use Nylon brushed most often the MIG Abtilung ones are wonderful.
Nice 251 :)
L

Leon,
Thanks!
Love your figures!
Art pencil,have to try that.
Cheers,
T.

SPONGE!

I'd forgotten about sponge!

I got some good results doing German tanks, years ago, using a piece to dab on paint over the gelb base coat.

Thanks for the reminder!