Help support TMP


"Three Armies Revolutionary French" Topic


38 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Napoleonic Gallery Message Board

Back to the Napoleonic Product Reviews Message Board



1,521 hits since 18 Mar 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 3:53 a.m. PST

Three Armies has been promising French Revolutionary Infantry and here is a sneak preview. Again showing much imagination (as with the early Prussian Infantry) in subject choice. I could not resist posting several pictures but far more on their Facebook page (and no, you do not have to have an account, you just click on the no thanks bit and you still see the images)


link

This will involve another kickstarter and, if is even half the success of their last one…………

TMP link

picture

picture

picture

picture

picture

picture

von Winterfeldt18 Mar 2018 4:22 a.m. PST

so one would have to put on the bayonetts? French army usually fought with fixed bayonets, also the muskets seem to be on the very short side. I would wish the sculptor would do better research.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 5:16 a.m. PST

I only showed a few of the many images, but the link shows them all. The marching figures certainly have bayonets fixed.

picture

Personally, I prefer to add bayonets myself, in general. They are either very fragile castings or, as with Front Rank, indestructible, but thicker than the musket! The work of seconds to add if wanted.

Did skirmishers fix bayonets? I know often asked re British of the Napoleonic Wars. Musket length I would have to measure the originals and assume 28mm equals 1/56 scale. Maybe these are very tall strapping lads?

von Winterfeldt18 Mar 2018 6:33 a.m. PST

@deadhead

A French fusil d'infanterie was about 5 feet long, without bayonet. In case a French fusiler was on average between 5 feet 4 to 5 feet 6 inches, also look how the rings are placed on a real musket and on the models.
I assume that those are not skirmishers, and this is French Army and not British – and French Army had usually fixed bayoents.

Esquire Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 9:07 a.m. PST

Beautiful! As far as bayonets, regardless of history, I don't want bayonets on firing figures. Total pain in the butt when basing and using in games. If inaccurate then I will enjoy the inaccuracy.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 9:51 a.m. PST

Certainly they add to the fragility (they do require much deeper bases if not to be "exposed") and so easily added if wanted. I put my skirmishing Brigade Games Miniatures into a Light Inf Regt firing line. So added Perry plastic backpacks and plastic bayonets to fit ……work of moments only.

Mine are display only.

Things I do like about these, though not my period;

Detail around the Flintlock mechanism
Facial expressions on command figures
Anatomy…they look human proportions
Posing. Nicely restrained, not charging hell for leather
Buttons to help the more casual painter. These are serious buttons! I'll take all the help I can get

Frankly if it was not for the fact that I simply cannot paint white, I would be tempted anyway!

The rings question I did not follow. Is this referring to what holds the sling or to the brass barrel bands that secure the barrel to the wooden stock?

Three Armies18 Mar 2018 10:42 a.m. PST

VW feel free to sculpt your own or commission a sculptor to do it your way and show us how it's done? BTW this is not my Kick starter, I am only the sculptor sculpting the figures the way I'm TOLD to sculpt by the client. And the reason for the omission is for manufacturing purposes I'm sure the client is very correct on this point. Furthermore if you've ever fired a weapon you would KNOW that to do so with bayonet attached is not ideal, and anyway why would you have a drill to fix bayonets or even have them removable at all?? Sadly it is YOU that needs to do more research.

von Winterfeldt18 Mar 2018 12:03 p.m. PST

@deadhead
you could them paint in a red coat as former Irish regiments in French service

Lambert Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 12:36 p.m. PST

I love the poses, wish more figures were in this style.

Supercilius Maximus Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 12:53 p.m. PST

I was under the impression that skirmishers tended to not fix/unfix their bayonets, as it made re-loading the musket much easier, and also aiming it. Or was that just a British thing?

Three Armies18 Mar 2018 1:13 p.m. PST

Super Max, From what I've read and studied, I believe you are correct. It was a "professional soldier thing" At this time in the 18th Century these chaps would have been pro's and only when the levee en mass came along did a lot of drills go out the window. The order to " fix bayonets" meant a lot to a soldier (and still does today), anyone that says different clearly don't get the point. If you forgive my pun!

von Winterfeldt18 Mar 2018 1:28 p.m. PST

I don't know if it was a British thing, French infantry fought usually with fixed bayonets, even skirmishers, this – as usual might not have been done 100 % – but the trend is fixed bayonets, I find French infantry without fixed bayonets a waste of time.

@deadhead

about the musket rings, look at a real French fusil d'infantrie, in this case M 1777 and see about the spacing of the rings, also musket slings were tightened so not to interfer with loading, this is not ACW or WW2.

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 1:55 p.m. PST

From my perspective, we are gamers and the figures we use are at best a representation of historical figures. Many times a compromise must be made so the figures can be robust enough to withstand the handling they get while we are gaming with them.
So with that being said, Three Armies, keep doing what you are doing. Your figures look great. I respect the knowledge that von Winterfeldt has on some subjects but I lose that respect when he derides others and acts like a know-it-all.
Von Winterfeldt, if you want that level of detail in a figure then I would recommend that you go to the larger sizes – 54mm, 75mm, or even 90mm. Those will give you the detail and correctness you are looking for.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP18 Mar 2018 2:45 p.m. PST

I, personally, welcome this kind of response.

If I post figures, I would much rather any comment that adds content.

If my posting has some positive feature, say why, not just "Cool". Tell me what I got right.

If you spot the slightest problem, tell me. It could be the photography, the painting, the research…it could be the buttons or rivet counting. Then it is up to me…….

I thank von W for his input. The worst is for any post to be ignored……..he has made a useful comment, even if we would not all agree, totally…one hundred per cent….

. Yes, thanks!

Three Armies18 Mar 2018 2:46 p.m. PST

Yes indeed for most clients the ability to cast it is way more important than the historical accuracy and to 90% of all manufacturers I know the History is almost a side issue and an inconvenience! And yes VW is correct about the slings, but slack musket slings make great fillers to holes in the moulding process as do shorter muskets and unfixed bayonets!

BTW chaps this is NOT my kickstarter or range I sculpted it for another client. And I would like to do more, so please back them, I did! Because unlike others I dont slag figures off and think that will somehow make our hobby better. :(

link

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP19 Mar 2018 4:49 a.m. PST

and the Kickstarter has already reached its goal I see………great.

Apologies that I misunderstood and thought this a Three Armies planned release. Interesting to read that this was regarded as a very simplified painting exercise…it worked well if so!

Irish regiments in French service! Now there is a thought.

Cunning plans right now for Wellington's 27th and 88th Irish units. Maybe then…?

von Winterfeldt19 Mar 2018 5:30 a.m. PST

@18th Century Guy

sorry to disappoint you with my comments, as for detail I don't have to look for bigger scale, but for other sculptors like amateur sculptors (those who usually have a regular job) as in 1 / 72 scale Frank Ziegler or Franznap, or in 28 mm the Perrys (very professionals) or Frank Germershaus with Black Hussar, or indeed AB or Sho Boki (both professional sculptors) in 18 mm.

A infantry musket is elementary, some research about uniforms and equipment is elementary as well for a professional sculptor, yes ineed the critic is easy but the art is difficult, therefore here 1 / 72 figures I sculpted to years ago.

theminiaturespage.com

‌"TMP link

theminiaturespage.com

‌"TMP link

theminiaturespage.com

‌"TMP link

And I am not speaking about the finer details as frog for the bayonets, folds in the coat tails from the taille buttone downwards, the martingale and other points of equipment.

OK my sculpts are not as great as those of Three Armies, but when I can get this details right as amateur sculptor, a professional should get it right as well.

I will henceforth stop any comments on his products

Lord Hill19 Mar 2018 11:05 a.m. PST

Any date for the "standing around" British? (sorry, to keep on badgering, but can't wait for these!)

Three Armies19 Mar 2018 2:01 p.m. PST

Von W you are in danger of making yourself look a total idiot over your petty point, or you dont like me which is it? Whatever have I done to you??

FYI I have been a professional sculptor for over 30 years! I started around the same time and of the same 'school' as the Perrys. And if a client tells me to "leave the bayonets off the firing figures" guess what? I do exactly what the client tells me to do, that's what professionals do.

Yes Lord Hill not sure if you backed the KS but pledges will go out at the end of March and the figures will go on general release shortly afterwards in April.

archiduque20 Mar 2018 6:44 a.m. PST

Excellent stuff!!

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP20 Mar 2018 10:17 a.m. PST

My apologies for the second time….this time if my posting has caused a rift between two of the most valued contributors on this site.

These Internet exchanges are like that Twitter business. One says things that sound more aggressive than was ever intended. A simple criticism soon becomes a personal insult and I am sure that was never intended by von W.

I am now researching the Irish in red idea……even if not my era. Definitely my origins though…..and I really like these figures.

Are we allowed to know who is going to produce them yet or is this all commercially sensitive?

Three Armies20 Mar 2018 1:20 p.m. PST

Irish in red sounds fun, but if you look in the British army there are loads of them wearing red mate. ;)lol

Enry MItchell21 Mar 2018 1:50 p.m. PST

One says things that sound more aggressive than was ever intended.

That is so true, Deadhead, I'm sure everybody has experienced a misunderstanding of some sort by misinterpreting the tone of a text message or email.

But on what planet could it ever be construed as appropriate adult behaviour to respond to somebody's hard work – their beloved hobby or their attempt at a livelihood – with NOTHING but a sniping criticism?

Posts of this kind from the likes of Von Winterfeldtand Supercilius Maximus (and several others) have doubtless put off many members of TMP from participating. It's a basic human skill to couch any criticism with sensitivity. But the world of Napoleonic figs seems to be plagued by a type of individual who seems to thrive on seeking out other's work so that they can say "The trim on the cuffs is wrong" AND ONLY THAT.

It would be laughably childish if it wasn't so hurtful to so many people and, as I have already said, has probably done tremendous harm in turning off people who otherwise might have joined our dwindling ranks.

Three Armies21 Mar 2018 3:15 p.m. PST

I so want to click like on that Enry, but then I realised I too was on a dying forum and not modern social media…… ;)

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP21 Mar 2018 4:09 p.m. PST

What, modern social media? You mean anything but the kind of thing where we actually communicate with each other in words, but instead with emoticons?

You must be the kind of sad person who does not feel the need to photograph his restaurant meal, let alone check his twitter/Facebook and the other thing they all use, whilst masticating. Girls, with a BMI twice their age, thumb their phones, whilst pushing their offspring's buggy out into the road around our way. A new young colleague of mine bought a diet Coke in my Hospital yesterday and paid with his phone. His phone…….I am rarely lost for words but……

The potential of the internet is incredible but what is it used for in practice? Oh forget it. Do not get me started…

The more I see these figures the more I like them. They do have your recognisable style and I am tempted. Do we get to know who is releasing these, as not Three Armies, or does that have to remain under wraps for now?

TMP has lost some valued members in the relatively short time I have been a member and I gather that conflict has played a part. Seems a shame.

seneffe21 Mar 2018 4:37 p.m. PST

I think they are beautiful sculpts- well done. But I think Winterfeldt is right about the musket length and fixed bayonets.
A quick look through the (slightly later) eyewitness illustrations of Faber du Four and Albrecht Adam seem to show that although bayonets were unfixed on route march etc- on duty in the presence of the enemy, including skirmishing and outposts- the French had fixed bayonets.

Three Armies21 Mar 2018 5:03 p.m. PST

Deadhead they are being released by Emperor Toad, eventually, it is no secret. And yes I'm sure the internet a social media is misused, although I too laugh at folks photographing their dinner, lol I suppose you could forgive others for thinking pictures of our hobby is sad too?

The great irony is that I agree with Von W the bayonets are most 'likely' to have been fixed. But they 'could' be detached. And more importantly Von W is not listening, just telling.

The eventual manufacturer argues that they present casting issues and gamers complain that they break off anyway.

Why Von W had to insult my ability to research is odd, and it's not the first time he's done it to my work either. I spy with my little eye a green eyed monster. Which is a great shame because his sculpts are beautiful in their own right.

von Winterfeldt22 Mar 2018 3:09 a.m. PST

there is always the stiffle or ignore button.
It is seemingly obvious that a rant about flash and "badly" casts seem to be perfectly tolerated – see Perrys thread, but pointing out other aspects of disagreement with a sculpt isn't.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP22 Mar 2018 5:37 a.m. PST

Oh we do moan about Perrys….but then admit that we love their work and it is still 90% of my small collection after all.

Moaning is a very British thing. It is in our nature, like forming a queue (US;line) . (I have to say British, not English, as I am Irish, with an EU legit passport to prove it!)

I got into terrible trouble, just weeks after joining TMP, for dismissing a piece of work as truly awful. Tango had posted it off the internet, but I had no idea the host would get to read what I had said. Humble pie big time and a genuine apology from me!

von Winterfeldt22 Mar 2018 6:22 a.m. PST

for those who like to know more :

link

and

napoleon-series.org

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP22 Mar 2018 8:39 a.m. PST

von W's first link is great, but does challenge one's schoolboy French.

There are indeed far more toujours than quelquefois (always vs sometimes) suggesting that bayonets fixed were indeed the norm. Which begs the question, why carry something to carry the bayonet in that case? (Am I right that Prussians did not?)
Answer…there is the occasional quelquefois!

Great to read that a bayonet was valued at 3 francs and 62 centimes in 1830s (when the French used real money).

Three Armies22 Mar 2018 6:29 p.m. PST

So that would be regulations in 1766 some 30 years before the King and his regulations were ousted by a revolution? Sorry Von W but 'the jury is out' and will always be on this subject. The evidence one way or another is not sufficient.

Also note here a very British drill manual from the same period. Note in particular the drill to 'fix bayonets' YouTube link

Enry MItchell23 Mar 2018 1:52 a.m. PST

It is seemingly obvious that a rant about flash and "badly" casts seem to be perfectly tolerated see Perrys thread, but pointing out other aspects of disagreement with a sculpt isn't.

That's what you took from this? no apology, just a justification that your sneering sniping is ok because there is other sneering sniping on this forum, so why aren't you allowed too? Unbelievable. Are you an adult?

Yes, we could press ignore or stifle, or, y'know, we could try changing the way we communicate with people online and desist from the kind of malicious posting that I have brought to your attention. Too much to ask, I expect.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP23 Mar 2018 8:13 a.m. PST

von W's linked book is well worth a perusal if your French is remotely up to it. It goes way beyond the 1766 of the title of course, indeed well beyond 1815, to cover developments and evolution of practice. A great find….wish my French was better still!

I really did foul up on my posting at the top. One of the links is to Brigade Games new British, not Three Armies new kickstarter that went so well…..and it is not a Three Armies release anyway.

Apart from that I got it right………almost

Never heard of Emperor Toad, but I now know a lot more about their work. Notice that we can look forward to bicornes and bearskins as well

link

seneffe23 Mar 2018 3:50 p.m. PST

I have to say- and don't know all the details of any previous differences of view (and definitely don't want to take any personal sides)- that Winterfeldt really is probably right on this point. I don't know Winterfeldt or even what his real name is, so I'm not a chum of his, but to be fair he has certainly been proved right on many occasions on TMP on questions of uniforms, drill, organisation etc- including pointing out where I have made errors.

'1766' regulations about bayonets may be too early to be relevant, but 1812 eyewitness drawings do indicate pretty much the same thing. Whether the French army- particularly the well organised ex-Royal regiments depicted by these figures- took a bayonet holiday for a few years- I don't know. I've never seen anything to indicate that.

For avoidance of doubt though- they are REALLY nice figures, and not having a bayonet when they should have one certainly wouldn't affect my buying decision. I just don't game in 28mm sadly.

sausagesca24 Mar 2018 3:05 p.m. PST

These are absolutely marvellous designs. I got the Three Armies Fr Chasseurs standing and they are some of the best figures I have in my collection. I doubt that I will get them painted for some time, but they are superb.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2018 2:46 a.m. PST

The point of course is that this is how the sculptor was asked to create them and I can understand that. Bayonets are either massively thick or to scale and fragile. With early Victrix brittle plastic they snapped off, in metal they bend at the lightest touch. The figures with musketry vertical will suffer this far less than those where it is anywhere near horizontal. As a collector, I would add them. It gives length to the firearm too. If I threw dice I would leave them as they are.

von W's comments made me look up images of French muskets of the era. They are so much longer and more slender than we maybe appreciate….and remember how much shorter their users were likely to have been back then.

Three Armies25 Mar 2018 6:19 a.m. PST

Deadhead They are indeed and the Prussian ones for 1806 even longer. For MY Three armies range personally I have the Bayonets for my Prussian firing line fixed, but I can see why my client didn't want them on his.

Enry, yes I'm not going to ignore anyone either. As for Von W while his historical opinion may be correct. It seems his ability to understand that other people are allowed to have opinions and make 'mistakes', is overtaken by the need to insult. And the refusal to apologise just indicates a sociophobe.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.