"Why I hate Kickstarters" Topic

Man, do I HATE Kickstarters. Most people running them push date out by months and think nothing of it. I backed two Kickstarters, both are at least two months late and the Kickstart owners act like they're doing me a favor.

How about they get the money when they deliver? Or if they're late by a month you have the option of getting a refund?

GGGGRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Caveat emptor.

If you don't like risk or delays, I advise waiting for a possible retail release. Otherwise treat it as a fire and forget investment – the money is gone but one day you may get a cool box in the mail.

It's an investment, not a store. If you aren't prepped for that going in, Kickstarter is really not for you.

I say that having been screwed by the Robotech Tactics Kickstarter (5 years late and then cancelled) and the Up Front Kickstarter (never delivered, money gone).

I've had product come on time, and product not arrive at all. I knew that going in. Being late doesn't tick me off if the people running the kickstarter keep me informed. I only get ticked off if they suddenly go quiet and won't answer questions. That's simply bad faith and should get you prevented from running another kickstarter. There should be a minimum communication standard on kickstarter.

Honestly, looking back – I never should have joined either of these Kickstarters. Both were by well known miniature companies. I'm just disgusted when they push the dates out by months and then act like they're doing you a favor.

At Historicon and other conventions – I should have a shirt printed with their names and excuses why they can't deliver the Kickstarters.

I know I wouldn't do that – but it's sure tempting!

I haven't backed one in a long time. I used to get caught up in the hype and invest. Now I realize that these are all going to come out in retail, except maybe a unique fig or two that I could buy on ebay if I really wanted. If I'm still excited about the project when it hits retail I'll buy it then. In many cases I've lost interest by then.

Steve

In bold print on the top right of the Pledge Manager page:
"Kickstarter is not a store."

I've backed many a project, it's always a happy surprise when some of them come in on time!

But one day, a box of free toys arrives on the doorstep. Whatever I paid for it was in a previous year's gaming budget and the details long since forgotten.

The benefit of waiting is that you can also find out if the project is a dud. Some games look great in the kickstarter but end up being real duds when released.

I've backed several and all have delivered on time or a few months late with one that was 18 months late.

I agree it's not a 'store' but I too get annoyed when dates are pushed back. It's not the late delivery but lack of communication that disturbs.

Interestingly, from my perspective, it's the miniatures related KS's that always seem to be pushed back while the boardgame KS's have always delivered on time.

yes, but it is really getting to be a problem. When Hasbro is doing Kickstarters. People are constantly wondering why there local store is closing. KS cut them out of most of the "shiny new thing' sales. Also many are run but Morans, who know nothing about productions ( I have been waiting 1 year for a Evil Dead Game)

still waiting on my War Gods of Olympus rule book but its a work in progress and I did get my miniatures already

I am supporting the Noggin the Nog kickstarter, and have been kept very well informed about the delay from the expected release date. As I am painting Star Wars figures at the mo after finishing more Russian Cavalry for the 7YW, I am happy to wait!

I am supporting the Noggin the Nog kickstarter

Noggin the Nog looks like allot of fun. When that goes to retail I'll look at picking that up.

I've never backed a kickstarter and don't plan on doing so in the future. Pre-ordering is a different matter, then the law is on my side in case of failure to deliver.

I've backed three (all small limited projects) they all delivered and I got nice product but I went in with my eyes wide open that there was always a chance it would go up and that was a risk I had to except.

I think as a tool for small companies or a individual to get something unique out there it is great. Generally as long as the project is small and the creator doesn't bite off more than they can chew it works.

I will say I find bigger games companies that use it annoying for some reason I can't get my head around. It feels like they should just go down the traditional route of developing it and putting it on the market. In those cases though I don't need to back them as it will end up in retail or eBay in time anyway.

In bold print on the top right of the Pledge Manager page:
"Kickstarter is not a store."

I understand that. I guess I expect people to live up to what they said they would do. I don't want to hear about the Chinese New Year – you should have thought of that. I don't want to hear about the Chinese factories shutting down for pollution – it happen often enough that you should have figured that into your timeline.

I really don't back Kickstarters for this reason – but I want to get behind these two vendors.

All I have to say – I made a mistake. I'm not doing this garbage again.

I backed PSC's 25 lbr battery Kickstarter and was very pleased even though there was a small delay for tooling. However this is the only one I've backed.

I haven't back any. To me, the small savings isn't worth the hassle.

Prepping to launch a KS in a month, maybe two. We will have the majority of physical products produced, ready for boxing and shipping, prior to launching the KS. Only the exotic orders will be built to order, after it closes. The exotics should ship out within 8 weeks of closure.

We will only offer what we feel we can build, and sell, period -- we will have a set number of rewards only; if it sells out, it may be a matter of waiting for the clock to run out. We may open it up, if there is demand, and the KS rules allow it, but we are aware of our productivity limitations. We will not allow success to bury/destroy us.

After the successful ending of the first KS, we plan to launch a second, with a bigger ticket item. The second will be built to order, after the fact. It, too, will have caps on quantity we are willing to build, due to keeping realistic schedules in mind, and to prevent too much success from destroying us.

After that, the business should be established, and able to take a more traditional path in the world.

For us, this is the best role for KS: to allow small start-up's to launch, modestly, and gain start-up capital. I am leery of open-ended KS's where the owner has no limits set up when they are producing a physical product, which must be manufactured, boxed, and shipped. If we can't do it within what we consider a reasonable time-frame, we won't do it all.

I, too, am a customer, and I pulled out of a KS, asking the owners for a refund (which they promised from the start, if customers were unhappy), when their production got pushed out two months past what they promised: went from 6 to 8 months wait. I got my money back, and they eventually made it to a commercial product, which is still on sale, today. I consider myself lucky in that case. Cheers!

The majority of mine have been from good to great. There is always one though. Dark Age Outpost funded October of 2015 still nothing but lame excuses. Not sure why they chose a production facility in Argentina of all places. Should have got that done in China I'd have my stuff by now.

I have invested in just one Kickstarter. Game Night Life magnetic edge game board. I am still waiting for delivery, after 2 years. Anyone else get in on this?

+1 TGerritsen

It's got to the point where it does look like a shop, and the huge Million Dollar plus Kickstarters do seem to come through on time and really impressive.

But they list risks for a reason.

Suffered from second-degree Kickstarter Burn last year and swore off them, only to relent recently on what looked like a small, manageable project.

More fool me. Now I'm reminded why I stopped backing them before.

Retail only from now on. Really.

I've never backed one and don't intend to, for all the reasons stated here. I'm happy to wait until released in retail.

I've backed five. One was by a friend, three were from an established game company, and one was from a brand-new game company. They all delivered, more or less on time, and kept backers informed when they were running late.

@TGerritsen,

It's an investment, not a store. If you aren't prepped for that going in, Kickstarter is really not for you.

+1

I've backed almost 40 kickstarters and the only one that didn't deliver in full was All Quiet on the Martian Front. This does not include all the Indiegogo projects I successfully backed.

Backed about 175 KS & Indiegogo projects so far. I'm in no hurry, as long as I get reasonably regular communication & the goodies turn up sooner or later, I'm happy.

I backed the same Outpost KS as Strosstruppen; not sure what is happening there, but it does seem to be finally progressing, so maybe it will arrive this year .

So far I've only had one dodgy KS, where I got the pdf, but no hardcopy, but that was small potatoes.

KS is an investment/gamble/whatever, you take your chances & voila! If you don't know what you are getting into, you can only blame yourself for not reading the small print.

I've backed 6 and that'll be pretty much it for my buying. Two of them allowed me to finish 2 projects and the 3rd was a unique set of minis. I've only got 1 that is delayed (2 years I think) but communication is still ongoing so I feel it's just a matter of time till I get it.

Backed three KS: Conan, This War of Mine and Terje Solum' Saga of the Samurai last book. Conan was delayed by 8 months; This War of Mine had a 3-4 month delay. Solum's book was delivered on time.

Well, of the two Kickstarters that I'm unhappy with, one offered to refund my money – which is probably the best result. No sense in waiting for an order if I'm going to be unhappy with the wait time…

It varies:

All the Bones Kickstarters by Reaper have turned out well. Reaper knows what they're doing, and the figs are a good deal. SJGames has run a huge number of great Kickstarters as well.

On the other hand others have been a cluster. Some of those failures were predicted, (i.e. Defiance Miniatures Power Armor).

Some turn out in the middle; Palladium held the Robotech license for 30 years, and now they're losing it, which has mucked up their (already off the rails) kickstarter. However, they're trying to make good by providing the models they do have in production to backers in lieu of the intended ones.

Crowdfunding it like buying a car: It helps to know that the business behind the product knows what they're doing.

It seems that on Kickstarter, they promise you great delivery times, extra models, etc. Then they have your money and reality hits. Oh there were delays in China. Oh we're having difficulty with the casting. Oh shipping went up.

It's just not worth it. I work too hard for my money to watch this garbage happen.

There should be a way to back out if there are issues. Maybe the money can be held in escrow until the product is ready to deliver?

There should be a way to back out if there are issues. Maybe the money can be held in escrow until the product is ready to deliver?

You really don't know how this works. The money is spent to bring the kickstarters to fruition. You ARE an investor in the project.

"It's not a store, it's an investment."

No. That's a terrible excuse. The creators are offering and promising a finished product. Yes, they're raising funds in advance. Call it pre-ordering then, but money for product is a business agreement.

I understand delays and errors, particularly in this context. My problem is with the distinctly unprofessional attitude and behavior on the part of the creators. Poor communication, blame shifting, sub-par final product, excuses… That's what ruins it.

Own your problems, keep your backers informed, honor your word. Your lack of planning shouldn't become your backers' emergency.

You ARE an investor in the project.

Then I seriously wonder if this should fall under the securities and exchange commission.

Sure. Get the SEC involved in a microscopic hobby, because the two Kickstarters that you voluntarily invested in, knowing all the risks up front, are late.

Not defunct. Just late. And even though one of the two projects you voluntarily signed up for has already offered you a refund, you are ready to turn yourself into a walking billboard?

+1 to Optional Field. If you can't do the due diligence of researching the company, then don't pledge. Miniature companies are small companies, meaning they're riskier than, say, boardgames with miniatures, like CMON and Monolith. I also skip most First Created projects, or will pledge no more than $35 USD on them, or will ask the creator questions about their previous experience, or will otherwise dig in with the research. I've lost $25 USD on one First Created project, but that was below my $35 USD limit. I also was dissatisfied with Cryptozoic's Walking Dead KS, but that was my fault (stupid error) for not reading the comments in their previous miniature boardgame KS (I also backed it for the game designers, and the gameplay itself has good comments). CMON's Massive Darkness gameplay was "meh" but I picked it up for the miniatures and was not disappointed. There are *plenty* of products in retail, so don't think you have to pledge on KS. I spent a *lot* of money through game flea markets at the FLGS and a fair amount through online sales. Plenty of miniatures out there!

Sure. Get the SEC involved in a microscopic hobby, because the two Kickstarters that you voluntarily invested in, knowing all the risks up front, are late.

Not defunct. Just late. And even though one of the two projects you voluntarily signed up for has already offered you a refund, you are ready to turn yourself into a walking billboard?

No, I'm frustrated at the lack of accountability. If a Kickstarter is late or goes belly up, Kickstarter still gets their money. There needs to be a better level of accountability on Kickstarters part for this.

I always here the excuse "it's an investment". Somebody needs to police Kickstarter and hold them accountable for what they bring to the market. If every time a Kickstarter fails the the Kickstarter company loses their money – you'd be surprised how this would stop.

There are *plenty* of products in retail, so don't think you have to pledge on KS. I spent a *lot* of money through game flea markets at the FLGS and a fair amount through online sales. Plenty of miniatures out there!

You're right. That's why I gave up on Kickstarter a while ago. I backed these two because friends of mine really wanted these to take off. I'm sorry I did. But – that'll never happen again.

I don't do KS for the reasons listed above. If I send someone money I want product, not promises. It's the same reason that I have started ordering from the source rather than a store that orders it after I order. I am really impatient and I'm not interested in the whole "we'll ship it when it's done" nature of KS. If you already have my money I have very little leverage over you, especially if you are a small company or an individual.

The only KS I ever had trouble with was in this hobby. I got half of what I was supposed to get. Lesson learned there.

What amazes me the most – if you deliver months late, thats ok. That's complete BS if you ask me. I guess I don't understand the whole Kickstarter culture.

I've backed a lot of miniatures KS. Some of them were perfect- good quality and delivered in time. Most were good quality but with late delivery. I'm still waiting for some that are VERY late, but I'm in no hurry, if I see a progress and the creator communicates the status in time. I haven't had issues with people going bust, or failing to deliver at all. You're risking for better prices, extra minis, being first (ok, it doesn't work even with some large KS, like CMON – they send the stuff to retail earlier than KS delivery) and the feeling that you make something happening.
I'm normally checking what I'm backing, but my biggest regret is Avatars of War Indiegogo dwarven army – it is going nowhere after several years, and they're not refunding….

It's normal to focus on the one foul apple in the basket, but most prokects do eventually get delivered, if a little late. With so many other games/miniatures/whatever out there, better a well-designed/produced item late than a mediocre, rushed one on time.

The real problem is the price. Contrary to what project creators would like to make us believe, crowdfunded products are usually hundreds of percent more expensive than an equivalent product that was published the traditional way and purchased in a retail or online store.

> I guess I don't understand the whole Kickstarter culture.

Well, it helps if you have 7K of miniatures still to paint and several closets of game that haven't been played. :P

> Contrary to what project creators would like to make us believe, crowdfunded products are usually hundreds of percent more expensive than an equivalent product that was published the traditional way and purchased in a retail or online store.

If it's a *competitive* product this is true, but if it's for monopolistic competition, it's not. That is, you're not going to want more than one 3D printer, and, by the time a late KS 3D printer is delivered, you might find one with the same features on Newegg or even Amazon at a lower price, or better features at a higher one. But, for *monopolistic competition* such as miniature boardgames or some miniatures, KS is sometimes a better deal. (If you only want the base game, retail sales are usually better.) I'm sure with the upcoming CMON Zombicide KS, backers will get their money's worth of plastic, and definitely homage figures that will never be available at retail.

link

I have backed 2. One for dice 🎲 that is running well behind on delivery and another for a board game that didn't get funded. The board game was going to be produced anyway it seems and I had a huge problem with the pre order that I eventually canceled and then had to fight for a refund for 2 months.

The experiences has proven educational (and one pays for your education). I do not see a time in the future where I will be backing a Kickstarter. As soon as the dice arrive, I will be closing my account with them.