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"Thank you HMGS BOD!!!!!!!!!!" Topic

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Rangers Lead the Way07 Mar 2018 10:38 p.m. PST

Thank you for securing a facility for Historicon in 2019. A great looking venue, a MARRIOT for lodging, no need to leave only if you want too. Everything under one roof. All you complainers out there why don't you wait and see the details of the contract. You might actually be surprised. We have 1 1/2 years to prepare. I'm just happy we have a venue.

WarWizard08 Mar 2018 2:24 a.m. PST

I agree, thank you HMGS BOD Team !

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 3:56 a.m. PST

You know, Rangers, it would be equally logical to say "all you cheerleaders out there wait and see how it actually works out."

I remember the same enthusiasm for the BCC. And Trimonium.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 4:53 a.m. PST

I remember the same enthusiasm for the BCC.

I remember that differently.

And how many exclamation marks make you a "cheerleader"? 5? 7? wink

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 8:51 a.m. PST

"And how many exclamation marks make you a "cheerleader"? 5? 7?"

For me, two in any one statement crosses a line. Obviously whoever is running the new HMGS site sees this very differently, but I always regarded the morning talk program "Wake up and Shine! America!" as satirical.

I will concede that enthusiasm for the BCC dissipated rapidly, but I remember the selling points are the same ones I'm getting now--the glories of more expensive lodgings in proximity to more expensive food especially. (Don't they feed you guys enough between conventions? Or are you only allowed to pick the dining location if you go off by yourselves?)

This may work out well, and I agree with the Board that we need at least two locations. But we are at the stage where the downside--the added vacation expense--is certain, and the benefits only promissory.

And I'm not waiting for "the details of the contract." I'm waiting to see the space allowed the games, the dealers hall and the flea market, what sort of hall the lectures are given in, whether the gaming areas are quiet and well lighted and games can readily be found. These are things none of us knows now, and all of us will know in August 2019. But they're the critical things. If all I want to do is sleep in a good-quality motel and dine at a more expensive restaurant than average, I certainly don't need to drive 500 miles each way to do it.

Come back to me next year when we've changed the ratio of enthusiasm to facts.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 11:56 a.m. PST

Good points all around Robert.

The "don't they feed you guys enough between conventions" made me laugh, I'll give you that.

I'm not looking for four star dining, but I don't want all you can eat Mongolian BBQ either.

Not to compare this to Baltimore, but what concerned me the most about that move was the uncertainty of it all, ie, driving blind and not knowing the lay of the land.

I was familiar with the VFCC as I had done toy soldier shows there, so I knew what the unload/set up would be as well as where to stay and where to eat, same with the FCC as again, I had done a toy soldier show there, so I knew all about the convention center, the hotels and the restaurants.

This new location is a total mystery to me, so we'll just have to see how it plays out, maybe I'll take a ride there prior to setting up at Cold Wars next weekend to check out the digs……………..

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 12:18 p.m. PST

I remember the same enthusiasm for the BCC.

I guess you weren't at the membership meeting when they discussed Baltimore? It wasn't pretty. I had Dudley red faced and yelling at me (that was fun).

No my friend, Baltimore was never well received.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 5:37 p.m. PST

I will concede that enthusiasm for the BCC dissipated rapidly,…..

Rapidly? I think the correct term was "instantly".wink

…..but I remember the selling points are the same ones I'm getting now--the glories of more expensive lodgings in proximity to more expensive food especially.

Again, that's not what I remember at all. I remember James Mattes and others explaining that Historicon had to "go to the next level". Remember that phrase? To do so, Historicon had to move to a big urban center, like Baltimore. Only then it would grow into another Origins (Columbus) or Gencon (Indianapolis). It would become nothing if it stayed in a backwater like Lancaster. That was the main thrust and sales pitch of the "Next Levellers". Not restaurants.

These are things none of us knows now,….

None of us? I'm betting the BOD does.

No my friend, Baltimore was never well received.

That's my recollection too.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 6:30 p.m. PST

Well, I never received Baltimore well, certainly. But Pete Panzeri wasn't the only one explaining the glories of fine dining and more expensive motels in the Inner Harbor to me at the time. (Hmph. Confession. If that list of downtown Lancaster restaurants had included an Outback, or even a Hoss's or Ponderosa, I'd grumble somewhat less. But there was nothing on the list I'd willingly swap an Arby's and a Pizza Hut for. Expensive meals cost flea market money, and are always a gamble first time.)

And I really hope the BoD does know the answers to everything I mentioned. But they haven't shared that knowledge with me, and previous boards have missed a few. Shall we take a few moments to remember
--Games you had to take a bus to at Trimonium?
--Trying to find games at the VFCC?
--The acoustics of the FCC--especially the first year?
--And the glories of the lecture room at the FCC?

This one may go well. I hope it does, and despite a reduced schedule in 2019, I'll probably attend. But I'll hold off on the clapping and cheering until I have a few more facts.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 7:01 p.m. PST

Just to sound an uncharacteristically optimistic note, I've been looking through the Marriott web site. The ballrooms are potentially decent gaming areas. Can't say more without examining the covering on the ceiling and walls, which I hope someone on the Board did--or better, asked a decent sound man to take a look at them.

We are a problem there, and no one seems to appreciate it until we're already into a mess. Facilities which will work just fine for one speaker behind a podium are an unholy mess with fifty games under way and everyone talking at once. What we really need is carpet, "sound soak" on the walls and acoustic ceiling tiles with high ceilings. But those ceilings are expensive, and sound-absorbent walls are harder to keep clean than the ones that reflect all the sound, so they're not the default. If you want them, you have to make them a consideration during the search, not just set up the tables and then find out you can't hear the man five feet away.

But we'll have a dozen chefs who think really well of themselves and charge accordingly within two or three blocks, so I suppose the gaming doesn't matter.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 7:27 p.m. PST

"If that list of downtown Lancaster restaurants had included an Outback, or even a Hoss's or Ponderosa, I'd grumble somewhat less."

Yeah, see here's the thing, at least for me; when I go on vacation with my girlfriend, then hey great, let's try restaurants I never heard of, we're on vacation, so let's live a little.

Conversely, when I travel on business, I am trying to keep my costs down as much as possible in order to maximize profits, which does not mean I stay at the Red Roof Inn across the street from the Host that rents by the hour or eat at McDonalds every night, but I stay in decent hotels and try to eat at chains because at least with a chain, the food is consistent and you know what you're going to get at IHOP, The Texas Roadhouse, Olive Garden, Applebee's, Ruby Tuesdays, etc, etc as opposed to eating at Fleu De Skunkies and paying 85.00 for a hot dog……….a selling point for a convention site is not "Hey, look at all the restaurant choices there are of places you've never heard of"…………… least not for me anyway.

BTCTerrainman Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 8:06 p.m. PST

Well some other good news is that the new Wegmans in Lancaster will not be very far away. A quick trip in the car will get you there……..

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2018 10:47 p.m. PST

Apparently opening 11/01/18 "Opening 2018! Lancaster, PA
Harrisburg Pike, East of U.S. Route 30 interchange in Lancaster County" Which is near Park City Mall

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP09 Mar 2018 2:03 a.m. PST

But I'll hold off on the clapping and cheering until I have a few more facts.

A bit of hyperbole, but I agree. I doubt the BOD has nailed down every detail quite yet. But I'll cut them a little slack, as the convention is still a year and a half out. The parking seems to have been dealt with…….a major feat since you are dealing with the city (and its revenues) and not just the Marriot or the Convention Center.

The main issue is how people get their armies, terrain and other sundries and accoutrements to the gaming rooms. Do they manhandle it from distant parking lots, or are there convenient off loading areas? How does a vendor quickly and efficiently unload his wares? I think these are important issues that will eventually be dealt with and made clear to the membership.

What I will be eating in July '19 is way, way down in the scheme of things as priorities go. I hope it not construed as "cheerleading" but I'm happy for a change of scenery from the Host.

By the way, my understanding is that the Host room rates for 2019 exceed those of the Marriot and less room will be available in the Vendor Hall anyway. Other than that, I always thought the Host was fine.

surdu2005 Sponsoring Member of TMP09 Mar 2018 3:31 a.m. PST

I know that it is popular sport to vilify Pete Panzeri and burn him in effigy over the BCC issue, but one thing he did right was to have the test event at the venue, which identified a number of drawbacks. I think it would be great if we could hold a game day in the next six or eight months so that GMs and vendors can get a feel for the logistics of the venue. As someone who runs 6-8 games per convention, I am much more concerned about the ability to get my stuff to my table for my games and the availability of "club rooms" than I am about room rates and food.

If the room rate is $15 USD a night more than the Host, that corresponds to $45 USD for the convention. That's not going to break me or ruin my convention. If getting my stuff from the car to the table, ability to leave some things set up overnight, and get my stuff back to the car at the end of the convention are a pain in the neck, THAT will ruin my convention.

Again, I think a one-day game day at the new venue before Christmas would be a good way to identify issues and/or gain acceptance and enthusiasm for the new venue. HMGS has enough money in the bank to put on such a test event.

PrivateSnafu09 Mar 2018 8:43 a.m. PST

Perhaps if half the people who should be wearing hearing aides did so the game rooms would be quieter.

Dynaman878909 Mar 2018 9:08 a.m. PST

Remember the school cafeteria? Same thing. Very few of them needed hearing aids too.

zoneofcontrol Inactive Member09 Mar 2018 9:36 a.m. PST

surdu2005 +1

I recall the survey about moving Historicon that went around at the Eisenhower at the Gettysburg con site. There was a rather loud and unhappy dialogue that went on for the duration.

As Buck mentioned, the Test Game Day proved all the failings of that folly. It exposed the deep divide between leadership and the member body. It also set in motion the legal and financial fiasco that nearly wrecked HMGS, Inc.

I do not expect a move into downtown Lancaster city to be anything like that disaster, but a Game Day could be helpful as a practice run for the con staff, vendors and GMs.

HMGS, Inc. has been talking about finding additional and alternate exposure beyond a full fledged con. Something like a Game Day could be something that could be held at numerous other venues on a smaller scale.

rmcaras Supporting Member of TMP09 Mar 2018 9:56 a.m. PST

Fascinating to see how people deal with ambiguity. The assumptions they make, and more so, the assumptions they make about others.

47Ronin10 Mar 2018 1:57 p.m. PST

+1 to the comments in favor of a gameday at the new location for Historicon.

My other comments regarding the LCC are posted on the related discussion. I won't repeat them here.

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