"Historicon 2019 at Lancaster Marriott" Topic

Exactly what Double G says!
I'm a vendor too, attending Historicon at the Host this year for the first time (been at Fall-In the last 2 years).
It would be nice to see the booth rates for 2019. My fear is that they will be considerably higher just by the looks of the convention center.
I will wait for more substantial information provided by the HMGS board before any further planning at this point and of course see how Historicon works for me this year.
It would also be good to know what happens with Cold Wars and Fall-In in 2019!

I had a thought. What is going to happen to all the tables HMGS bought with an agreement to store them at the Host if the convention moves?

Neil +2 "Historical wargamers have to be the cheapest bunch i've ever seen."

I was just thinking the same thing. The bottom line is what are folks willing to pay for play and hanging out? Everything so far is not out of the question or cost prohibitive at least from my view. I am willing to give it a go.

I don't believe HMGS bought any tables. That was a thought, made moot by the fact the new owners of the Host purchased their own, for their use. HMGS then would rent same from the Host (or any other facility provider). The Host then increases its revenue stream.

I don't believe HMGS bought any tables.

I'd have to dig in old threads but I could've sworn it was said in an old thread many months past. Maybe someone can clarify if it actually went through.

You might have seen it mentioned in Dave Waxtel's nomination biography. It was, IMO, a not well thought out (or at least explained how it would work) use of Society resources, now and in the future.

But I was told, the Host was smart enough to recognize the benefit of offering this feature to renters(vice contracting with a separate table/chair contractor).

I was told HMGS has not purchased tables

I suspect that the new owners of the Host may not have been willing to maintain the same prices and guarantees for future conventions, hence the move.

Prices for both meeting space and guest rooms are going up at the Host. We run the MUCH smaller TravellerCon there, and 2018 will probably be our last year at the Host as well.

Neil wrote:

Historical wargamers have to be the cheapest bunch i've ever seen.

Amen.

Just a note on tables:

The table rental fee is not insignificant. The original discussion with the Host's previous owners was splitting the cost and sharing the tables and they store them. It would have paid off the first year. It was a good thought to help reduce costs.

Obviously, with the new owners taking the Host upscale, looking to be a wedding / banquet destination and trying to get a higher end hotel franchise, what would anyone expect but the prices to go up?

Lot's of potential for weddings etc during the summer and with it being redone, and having that great outdoor pool, if I was bringing young kids to Hershey's Dutch Wonderland, I know where I would be staying.

I will be there at the Marriott and hoping for the best. More room in the hall, connected hotel and bar, nice hotel…I think it is worth a shot.

I look at it this way – the current BoD are very financially astute. There is no way they would have proceeded if it was not financially feasible. This place is still cheaper than FCC – by a long shot.

The remodeled Host is going up in price. Ray Charles could have seen that coming. People have wanted something different than the Host. The Board has responded and done an excellent job in choosing a location that fits our needs. They negotiated the parking price from 15.00 to 7.00 daily.

I really don't see a downside. It's in an area that, traditionally, has seen conventions well attended by HMGS members.

Personally, I'm with Brigade Games. I'm really looking forward to this!

As far as tables at the Host go, WBC bought tables a number of years back, it was cheaper than renting them. The Host stored them the rest of the year and used them for other events when needed.

My Historicon 2019 thoughts of the day on The Marriott.

Pro – There is no way on God's green earth that the Host's Tennis Barn, as reconfigured, will ever be able to accommodate an Historicon level slate of vendors. We're only at about 50 for CW, with very little room to spare.

Con – If a vendor like Belle and Blade comes, with their big honking trailer, after they unload, where are they going to park it?

I am going on Thursday night from the Host. See for myself. Don't just listen…look for yourselves.

I am going on Thursday night from the Host. See for myself. Don't just listen…look for yourselves.

Looking forward to hearing your opinion.

I agree with KPinder; the combination of going to exhibitor booths vs tables and the loss of vendor space along the back wall plus the far wall being moved out to create storage behind it has reduced the available dealer space.

The booths come 10 feet out from both walls instead of 8 feed and dealer space being back to back now measures 20 feet vs 16 feet as before.

Not sure if running the dealer booths north/south vs east/west shrank the available space further, but regardless, there is a lot less room in that building than at previous conventions.

It's still in Lancaster and I've been all around the area.

So….meh.

I've it moves someplace new I'll consider flying out again.

So you're not tickled by the idea then I take it……….

Haha!!!. King, I am not a dealer and may not be able to see a room. I will ask though. Will you be at Cold Wars? I would meet up and give you a quick review.

I'm looking forward to it. It's still in my hometown and within 10 minutes of my house and the convention center is really pretty nice. I'm happy to give it a try.

I know that it is popular sport to vilify Pete Panzeri and burn him in effigy over the BCC issue, but one thing he did right was to have the test event at the venue, which identified a number of drawbacks. I think it would be great if we could hold a game day in the next six or eight months so that GMs and vendors can get a feel for the logistics of the venue. As someone who runs 6-8 games per convention, I am much more concerned about the ability to get my stuff to my table for my games and the availability of "club rooms" than I am about room rates and food.

If the room rate is $15 USD a night more than the Host, that corresponds to $45 USD – $60 USD for the convention, depending on how many nights you plan to stay. That's not going to break me or ruin my convention. If getting my stuff from the car to the table, ability to leave some things set up overnight, and get my stuff back to the car at the end of the convention are a pain in the neck, THAT will ruin my convention.

Again, I think a one-day game day at the new venue before Christmas would be a good way to identify issues and/or gain acceptance and enthusiasm for the new venue. HMGS has enough money in the bank to put on such a test event.

Surdu2005 wrote: "I think a one-day game day at the new venue before Christmas would be a good way to identify issues and/or gain acceptance and enthusiasm for the new venue. HMGS has enough money in the bank to put on such a test event." I think that is a great idea. I would give it a go myself.

….but one thing he did right was to have the test event at the venue……

Only after there was a huge outcry against the BCC. A test game day was planned to show that the naysayers were wrong. It backfired! An aqauintance of mine got a ticket while moving his gaming gear while parked in the loading zone.

But your point is taken. It would be a poor con without the excellent contributions of you and the rest of the HAWKS.

If the room rate is $15.00 USD USD a night more than the Host, that corresponds to $45.00 USD USD – $60.00 USD USD for the convention, depending on how many nights you plan to stay. That's not going to break me or ruin my convention.

Me neither. But, to be fair, I'd rather spend that $$ in the Vendors room.

My understanding is that the BOD was given a room rate of $149 USD for the Host in 2019. And they were losing a chunk of the space in the Tennis Barn due to further renovations. So the contracted rate of $145 USD at the Marriot in 2019 is a good deal.

Surdu2005 +1

Bowman +2

My Historicon 2019 thoughts of the day on The Marriott.

Pro – As a hotel there seems little doubt that the Marriott is going to be nicer than the Host. Based on the info that we've seen posted, it looks like the room cost is going to be a bit of a wash, $149 USD vs. $145 USD-152. We'll have to see how the event space compares, but on the whole this looks like a solid pro.

Con – From the Host lobby there are 1170 hotel rooms available within 3/10s of a mile. (More like 1000 just now with the Continental off line.). Within 3/10s of a mile of the Marriott there are only 430 rooms. The Marriott and the Hotel Lancaster, formerly the Brunswick. I don't know what percentage of the average 1500ish attendees are day trippers, but there could be an issue trying to shoe horn the rest into 430 rooms.

Will you be at Cold Wars? I would meet up and give you a quick review.

I wish I was going. My niece is getting married that weekend so I have to be there. Funny thing was – she asked which weekend I go away. So we told her. And she picked that darn weekend anyhow. Oh well.

I guess you will have to listen. Again, I am just your average weekend gamer. May not see the rooms, will have to imagine the "set up" , but I will report with a practiced GM eye if nothing else.

FYI, I toured the hotel and the convention center a while ago. Both are large, modern, clean, up to date facilities that want HMGS' business. Once you are on the premises, you will have very little need to leave until the convention is over.

The hotel is probably the nicest one HMGS has ever used, on a par with or better than the hotels at Valley Forge and far better than what people are used to at The Host.

The vendor hall has plenty of space. There are also enough club rooms to go around for everyone.

Food and drink are ample and impressive.

Parking will be an issue for some, but HMGS and convention staff will address those concerns. Certain spots may be reserved for GMs to improve ease of access. I've seen the attached hotel parking facility. You can wheel in figures and terrain under a covered walkway all the way to the gaming areas.

Overall, with the reduction in space at the Host, Historicon had to be moved. Only time will tell on how this new location works out, but it has plenty going for it.

We'll see.

Having said all that, I would still like to see HMGS move a convention to Valley Forge.

Finally, +1 to Col. ("Uncle") Buck's comments on a gameday at the new facility. I was at the BCC gameday years ago (which went better than some have said) and would be happy to attend a similar event at the LCC.

P.S.--Duncan, your comments made me laugh, as always.

My biggest question. Will the hotel only allow reservations of people staying 3-4 nights?

"Once you are on the premises, you will have very little need to leave until the convention is over."

Sort of like you can check out, but you can never leave……..

Most excellent reference, Double G!!

Thank you 47 ronin I am glad you liked it.

"Most excellent reference, Double G!!"

When it comes to this forum, for the most part the material writes itself…………;)……..

I love your sense of humor George!

Tom

"Will the hotel only allow reservations of people staying 3-4 nights?"

This would make sense. Letting someone book for say Friday night only takes that room out of circulation for essentially the entire weekend – it will be more likely to sit vacant Saturday and Thursday nights.

Ideally they'd open it to 3 night stays for a certain period of time then afterwards open it up to shorter stays.

"I love your sense of humor George!
Tom"

Right back at you; one of the highlights of the HMGS shows for me is seeing you and having you bust me up with your humor and your stories.

I'm extremely fortunate to sell toy soldiers for a living, one of the side benefits is all the good people I get to meet along the way, a terrific bonus…………….

By all means run a games day if you can, but just like the situation with the BCC, the contracts are already signed. The time to do such a test is prior to signing the contracts. The best a games day will do know is to perhaps show some of the challenges at this new facility.

What the hell… lets just go and have a good time. If the venue is worse than The Host or FCC and the convention stinks then everyone can bitch about it later and burn the BoD at the stake. (Okay, easy for me to say now that I'm back in the Midwest and no longer an HMGS East member… but I will say the same thing about the HGMS Midwest BoD and Little Wars if its warranted.)

BTW there is nothing you can do about the fact that a large number of historical gamers are penny pinchers compared to other gamers and hobbyists; just reality. I'm sure George can validate that little factoid.

Holy crap on a cracker. Row 3, number 3. A soup to nuts guide from the exhibit rooms all the way out to the loading area.

sueschonman1.walkinto.in

Does anyone know if the facilities will be open to view in two weekends? I'd be curious to see the physical arrangements for getting stuff in and out of the facility.

My experience has been hotels are usually happy to show you a room, and public areas are accessible. Of course ifmeeting rooms are being used, they are not accessible.

Still, a recon of local conditions from the perspective of dealers and GMs would be useful.

But then again, this place was considered a non-starter by many on TMP, so they may not care as they certainly won't consider attending.

That Hotel looks fantastic! My brother and I and our friends would gladly attend Historicon at that hotel but not the Host .

PS You'll have to place a sheet over the Yankee Soldier statue out front as we Southerns are a bit fragile these days !

"PS You'll have to place a sheet over the Yankee Soldier statue out front as we Southerns are a bit fragile these days !"

Yeah; not sure about the whole "sheet" thing…………just sayin.

I'm not sure what the hotel has to do with the convention center. My concern, like Buck's and other's, would be being able to get stuff in and out of there if running a game or selling stuff in a flea market area.

Only time will tell if the facility is a non-starter based on attendance. Unlike in past years when the hotels on site were inadequate as was the parking, sounds like things have changed. Ingress/egress will be a big factor, as will parking fees. I'm willing to give it a try, as I did the FEC. I am sure others will too.

Here is what Kevin Kelley posted on the HMGS facebook page in regards to parking fees:

Penn Square Parking Garage next door – 756 spaces – if you have a room at the hotel parking is free.

East King Street Garage 1 block away – 448 spaces
Prince Street Garage 1 ½ blocks away – 1,126 spaces

0-1 hour $2 USD USD
1-2 hour $4 USD USD
2-3 hour $5 USD USD

Each Additional or Partial Hour Add $1 USD USD
Up to A Maximum of 24 Hours $15 USD USD
Lost Ticket $26 USD USD
After 5PM Friday, Saturday and Sunday $5 USD USD

Me again – I am not sure if those rates are just for the Penn Square parking or applies to the other garages as well.

Here is an excellent review of the facility by Bill (we really miss your webpage!) Gray:

link

So the rumor of the negotiated $7 USD rate for convention goers is not true?

TSD101, it is my understanding that parking arrangements have been negotiated with the city, so I expect $7 USD should be true. I am sure we will learn a lot more later this week during the membership meeting at CW.

"Unlike in past years when the hotels on site were inadequate as was the parking, sounds like things have changed."

What was inadequate about the parking at the FEC or the VFCC, you lost me on that one. Or the Host for that matter.

Based on an initial view of this and from speaking with several people I know who have had experience with the Lancaster Convention Center, Saturday in July in downtown Lancaster could be an adventure for day trippers.

At this stage of the game, I want to get past Historicon at the Host this year before I think about what the lay of the land will be in 2019 in downtown Lancaster.

I think a recon trip to the convention center is a good idea, something I'll attempt at some point prior to committing to the convention, I don't want to go into this blind……………

I am also concerned about the reduction of walkable hotels in the area compared to the Host. Many will not be forced to pay for parking if they can not get the convention hotel or the other nearby one. This new location does interest me and has me thinking of attending next year.