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"Sherman M4A3E2 "Jumbo" 75mm" Topic


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jfariahitech28 Feb 2018 4:32 a.m. PST

Fall of the Reich on the way IV – Sherman M4A3E2 "Jumbo" 75mm
Resin / Metal – Warlord Games
Stowage – "S & S Models" and "Debris of War"

More pics:
link

M C MonkeyDew28 Feb 2018 10:04 a.m. PST

Nice!

shaun from s and s models28 Feb 2018 12:03 p.m. PST

great

wrgmr128 Feb 2018 12:30 p.m. PST

Nice weathering!

Joes Shop Supporting Member of TMP01 Mar 2018 5:25 a.m. PST

Excellent Work!

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP01 Mar 2018 2:26 p.m. PST

Nice work.

And an under-appreciated / under-utilized subject.

I've had several wargamers, and even a few self-described amateur historians, express disbelief or even laugh in my face when I've suggested that depending on the version, a Sherman could have 7 inches of frontal armor and 6 inches of side armor -- substantially MORE than a Tiger.

And BTW, although never available in particularly large numbers by US Army standards, there were in fact MORE such Shermans in action in ETO than there were Tigers. So by all rights they should be MORE common on battleboards than Tigers (which seem to be on every battleboard).

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

SpeedCrazedMoron03 Mar 2018 7:07 p.m. PST

Er? More Jumbos than the 1300 Tiggers? Really?

Plus one on the good work with the model, though. Nice.

(Leftee)04 Mar 2018 1:31 p.m. PST

Yes. On the Western Front facing the US. Armor encounters with the Tiger I 44-45 could be counted on one hand.

(Leftee)04 Mar 2018 1:35 p.m. PST

Sorry; source: study of war dept records by Zaloga in Patton vs the Panzers. Dispels many myths.
Anyway. Will get the Italeri or S&S version to lead my US columns!
Thanks for sharing. Will have to learn to airbrush.

(Leftee)04 Mar 2018 1:39 p.m. PST

Did they put mine ploughs or rollers on the E2?

SpeedCrazedMoron05 Mar 2018 10:52 a.m. PST

I always likes a good myth, me. Often more comforting than reality!

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP05 Mar 2018 3:30 p.m. PST

Er? More Jumbos than the 1300 Tiggers? Really?

As brucka pointed out (thanks brucka!), I did not suggest that more Jumbos were BUILT, but that more were in service in ETO. But I would add, facing not only US (including French) forces, but also British / Commonwealth (including Polish) forces.

I stand by my assertion that there were in fact MORE Sherman Jumbos in action in ETO than there were Tigers (and would include Tiger IIs, even). So for a gamer gaming ETO, it should be a more common sight on the gameboard than a Tiger.

There were a total of 254 Sherman Jumbos (M4A3E2) built by Fisher Locomotive. I have not seen definitive numbers for how many were shipped to ETO, but I believe it is almost (if not fully) all. Once trialed, the tank was in high demand in-theater.

So much so that another ~100 were built IN the ETO, by welding additional plates onto existing M4A3s.

So let's say ~350 Jumbos in ETO.

From sources I've been able to find, it appears that a total of about 230-240 Tigers and Tiger IIs were deployed on the ETO.

Out of these, about 150 Tigers and Tiger IIs were present during the Normandy campaign (June – Aug 1944). About 60-80 were available at as a peak at any one time. Only 4-5 escaped from Normandy, but none of them made it back across the Seine, the last few falling into the river as they attempted to cross by ferries.

The rest of the 80-90 used in ETO were deployed during the Ardennes offensive and subsequent battles. These were mostly Tiger II's, with only a handful of base Tigers. No more than 30 were available at any given time, and never en masse.

About 180-190 Tigers deployed in Italy in June 1943 through May 1945. The average number of Tigers available at any given time since their deployment in Italy was about 30-40, with a probable peak at about 50. But Italy was in the MTO, not the ETO. I don't believe any Sherman Jumbos were provided to MTO, due to the mountainous terrain that dominated that region. (Or if any, maybe a handful for trials?)

So … all you ETO gamers out there … American Sherman Jumbos should be showing up about 50% MORE OFTEN than Tigers. Jumbos come out 3 times for every 2 times Tigers are seen. Just kinda as a back-of-the-hand guideline. Of course that's assuming you NEVER bring a Tiger out against the Commonwealth (which you probably do).

Could be wrong. Be interested to see credible numbers that indicate I am. But this is what I believe from my readings.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

jfariahitech06 Mar 2018 3:19 a.m. PST

Thanks guys!

SpeedCrazedMoron07 Mar 2018 3:06 p.m. PST

Tee, hee! Do I detect a bugbear, here?

But I take your point – that I missed originally – about deployment and build numbers.

Still, gotta love a myth when it looks as uber cool as a Tiger and packs an 88. ;o)

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP07 Mar 2018 10:40 p.m. PST

Tee, hee! Do I detect a bugbear, here?

Trying hard not to bug any bears.

Just offering the perspective that gamers who play ETO might want to view the Jumbo as a bit more accessible/common than my own gaming experiences demonstrate. Like maybe 3 times to every 2 times a Tiger is on the gametable if you play ETO vs. all allies, or even 3 or 4 times to every 1 time a Tiger is on the gametable if you play ETO only vs. US.

Didn't count a single rivet, you might note.

Still, gotta love a myth when it looks as uber cool as a Tiger and packs an 88.

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, SCM? Who's tank you calling uncool? Huh?


[Mk1 in his Sherman Jumbo some mumble-mumble years ago.*]

YouTube link
You want 0:24.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

*Yes, another myth. That Jumbo was in the US Army School of Armor inventory in the LST building at Ft. Knox.

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