"How did Pontoon bridging trains actually work?" Topic
15 Posts
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Extra Crispy | 25 Feb 2018 11:14 a.m. PST |
I'm painting a pontoon bridge and am not entirely sure how they would be built. I think as follows: The pontoon hulls were pre-built and delivered on wagon-like chassis. These are then floated in the river at the correct spacing. Then boards or logs are laid in bank to bank. These are then topped with logs or planks forming the road way. Questions: 1) I assume the roadway was built using local timber? I can't imagine the bridging train carried the necessary planks or shaped logs, but instead carried tools to make them? 2) I assume you built one section at a time. Float, logs, planking? Rinse and repeat? 3) Were pilings ever used to reinforce the pontoons? 4) I assume a lot of the labor was pulled from the line, with the men assigned to the train being more specialists? Thanks in advance. |
Berthier2 | 25 Feb 2018 11:15 a.m. PST |
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Cerdic | 25 Feb 2018 12:16 p.m. PST |
Yes, but did the Sassanids invade India using pontoon bridges? |
deadhead | 25 Feb 2018 1:08 p.m. PST |
Let us assume we are not talking about the Beresina (not a pontoon bridge at all of course) First you have to connect the two river banks. That is not easy, that is dangerous. It means a swimming guy with a rope or lads with a boat ditto to span the torrent. Actually piece of string soon becomes a rope of course. Anything to join the two banks. Once a rope across the river the rest is a cinch. Obviously depends on the width and the need to excavate the river banks for access, re timing to allow wheeled vehicle access. But a few hours will do it generally. Pontonniers carried enough kit to float the pontoons and lay the "road bed" in any nation. Again, do not confuse the emergency bridge at Beresina, built from the local village wreckage, with a proper pontoon bridge produced by engineers. These chaps carried everything needed. They were professionals, an elite, in any nation. Yes, each pontoon was floated out to extend the bridge of course. Ropes played a huge part fixing everything in place. A job for experts but I would imagine the PBI were not allowed to just watch as disinterested observers. Pilings could be added later, indeed could be used as protection from floating threats as at Aspern-Essling/Lobau Island. But were not needed to make a pontoon bridge stable. So your Qs 1. No 2. Yes 3. Maybe 4. Yes |
von Winterfeldt | 25 Feb 2018 1:36 p.m. PST |
there existed pontoon train waggons which carried the pontoon and pre cut planks. |
jdginaz | 25 Feb 2018 2:27 p.m. PST |
Here is a youtube video of WWII German army engineers constructing a pontoon bridge. YouTube link The equipment is a little more modern but the method is pretty much the same. |
Brechtel198 | 25 Feb 2018 2:42 p.m. PST |
In the French service (the pontonniers were part of the artillery by the way, not the engineers), a pontoon bridge company usually had between 60-80 pontoons which they could 'throw' across a water obstacle in about seven hours. This number of pontoons could cover about 350-500 feet. The pontoons were flat-bottomed, rectangular wooden boats that were sheathed in copper. They were carried on haquets-long, two-wheeled wagons that were attached to an artillery limber. The French attached one pontoon company to the Guard (who eventually had their own unit of pontonniers), the Cavalry Reserve, the parc, and to each corps in the Grande Armee. Other wagons and caissons attached to the pontonnier company carried planks, tools, charcoal, rope, cable, anchors as well as small boats that would aid in the construction of the bridge. If they weren't available, an extra pontoon would be used. Sometimes, as in the second Danube crossing in July 1809 before Wagram, pontoon bridges would be constructed under cover, and then when it was time, swung out into the water for a quick attachment to the other bank and tied down. If there were no pontoons available, boats, casks, or anything else that could float could be used as in the first Danube crossing in May 1809 before Essling. Pilings were not attached to the pontoon bridge itself. The pontoons were anchored by cables and anchors. Pilings would be used and emplaced upriver from the bridge to preclude anything floated downriver by the enemy to disrupt or break the bridge to delay or stop a crossing. The Austrians did this successfully at Essling and it stopped Davout from crossing the Danube. The two bridges built at the Berezina were trestle bridges, not any type of pontoon or floating bridge. Engineers and sailors (who were jacks of all military trades) would also assist in emplacing pontoon bridges and the engineers and sailors at the Berezina assisted the pontonniers in building the two trestle bridges that were employed to get the army across the river. |
sidley | 25 Feb 2018 2:48 p.m. PST |
The you tube example utilising motorised pontoons. An alternative method is to build the entire bridge along the length of the riverbank and anchor the end downriver to the home bank, then release the upriver end and let the current swing out the bridge like a door swinging open to bridge the gap. This assumes you get the river width right of course. Pontoon bridges are not used for river assaults and only work when both banks are secured. In fact the only occasion I can recall that a bridge was built in the face of opposition on the other bank is Caesar crossing the Rhine and that wasn't a pontoon bridge. |
Brechtel198 | 25 Feb 2018 2:53 p.m. PST |
You might want to take a look at Napoleon's second Danube crossing for pontoon bridges being used in an assault river crossing. French gunboats were also used for fire support as the bridges from Lobau Island to the north bank of the Danube were floated out and anchored on the north bank. |
LORDGHEE | 25 Feb 2018 6:46 p.m. PST |
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AussieAndy | 25 Feb 2018 11:40 p.m. PST |
I understood that, if possible, the pontoon train carried the planking, as there was no guarantee that suitable planking could be found nearby and, even if it could be found, it would take time to procure it. Don't forget that each boat needed to be anchored in position. |
von Winterfeldt | 26 Feb 2018 12:03 a.m. PST |
yes indeed, some nations used pontoons constructed out of linen, which was made waterproof and a wooden frame, such as the Russian army when their pioneers constructed the epic crossing of the Rhine at Kaub – initially they had problems anchoring them because they did not use the heavy anchors for the Rhine, but eventually the bridge was done and Blücher crossed the Rhine. |
von Winterfeldt | 26 Feb 2018 6:48 a.m. PST |
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Marc at work | 26 Feb 2018 6:56 a.m. PST |
And HaT make a simple version in plastic 1/72. A usable model – not diorama quality but for the table, more than suitable. 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 And Franznap makes a dedicated set of French pontooniers – I am not aware of other manufacturers making such figures link Marc |
von Winterfeldt | 26 Feb 2018 2:33 p.m. PST |
Yes, Franznap of course – superb stuff |
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