"light machine gun volume of fire ? " Topic

Hi all

Background :-
So writing some rules base on Company Commander [ which in turn is based on Crossfire ] to fight 1900 – 1940 , VBCW and Sealion etc for 15mm and quick play.

So I will be using Platoons with 3 sections/squads on single bases and firing with one die per base.

I want each section/squad to have have an associated support stand either a A/T rifle or small mortar or light machine gun.

By light I mean easily man portable.

Question:-

How many die should I use for the light machine gun ?
Whilst I want it to supplement the fire power of the section/squads I don't want it to be totally dominant.

regards Paul

More than the rifles basically. Then Jusy adjust to make them not to dominant.

But they WERE dominant. It was the only weapon within a squad that really mattered.

Agreed. Tactics all resolved around them. Some of the rifles were basically there to protect the LMG.

It's hard to answer your question without knowing the rules. Do you have opp fire and beaten zones? I GO U GO or random activation?

But without access to more info, I'd be inclined to give an LMG 4 dice, 6 on a bipod.

Back in the day at School of infantry they taught 75% of a sections fire comes from the Gun group.

Obviously that's a belt fed GPMG.

MG 42 would be higher. That's why the German section commander moved with the MG42….

A mag fed lmg would be far less, that's why the LSW was dumped. It couldn't do it's primary job and win the firefight and suppress the enemy to allow other members of the platoon/section manoeuvre.

I like how Chain of Command handles it. With one die being the base rifleman then magazine fed weapons between 3-6 and MG42 a whopping 8 dice. Feels about right and very deadly if caught in the open.

I always thought how much ammo a unit carries is as important as volume of fire.

thanks for replies…

It is a game however not real life and I don't want it to become a shrine like having a King Tiger or similar.

There may be non allocated for a game , sometimes it may be random allocation you may get 2 mortars when you want a M/C gun ? sometimes the scenario will mention how may are used.

So my thoughts are give it 2 die , equivalent to 2 sections/squads.

Game is ' initiative' style rather than I GO U GO and yes there is Opportunity Fire that is one of the mechanisms for a side to loose the initiative.

Which is the reason I don't want it to be to dominant , it will also be limited in range as these style games have a lot of terrain features limiting LOS and fire opportunity.

unsure what a ' beaten zone ' is , however the game is small scale with maybe only 3 Platoons max per side and a couple of vehicles so should be quite fluid with lot's of movement needed to achieve objectives.

regards Paul

For the period you are talking about British would have a Bren gun per squad, Germans an Mg34. Bren only had a 30 round box magazine, so rate of fire is more limited than a belt fed gun like the Mg34. A beaten zone is where guns are pre-aimed and fire at a specific area to deny it to the enemy. Irregular forces such as in a VBCW scenario might not have any machine guns at all, or only a limited number.

As an ex LMG (7.62 Bren) gunner in the early 80s one thing to remember is that it is an extremely accurate weapon. With a good No2 changing mags one could get through 10 30 rd mags in a minute but the rounds would only be going in the general area of the enemy!

And at Bisley in 1984 I managed to get from 600 to 400 metres before I realised that all I was carrying was the barrel!

Tally Ho!

As long as the ammo supply holds up then LMG have effect. Then the bolt action rifle takes over as the LMG crew has a large club to swing about.

The LMG is an integral part of the section, it isn't an optional bolt on (apart from wierd Armies like the US and Italian in WW2).

As noted above, it generates most of the sections firepower.

Thanks all.

A Bren it is then.

May be start with 3 dice , the same as a full platoon and then adjust accordingly.

Paul

FOR VBCW and earlier don't forget the drum fed Lewis gun

Did they do a drum for the lewis?
I thought there were just 2 sizes of pan mag.
Brens were still pretty new and being rolled out in 1940.

Not sure of the technological by used with the Lewis but it needs to be in the mix. Happy to bow to the knowledge of an expert.

When I first started with WW2 it seemed that the MG 34 was providing more fire than the Bren – which it can BUT
It seems to have come down to ammo. Its fine if your cyclic is 3x the enemy IF you have 3x the ammo

AND

can change barrel without interrupting fire. My understanding is that 42s went through a barrel quicker than a bren

ALSO

doctrine

The Germans had a MG, supplied by men who happened to carry rifles,

The British seem to use them as two halves – one firing while the other moved.

Part if RoF is down to doctrine.

The Lardies did a really good article on British assault tactics a few years ago.

The LMGs for the platoon would be collected under the sergeant to 'Shoot the rifles in'.

The three Rifle groups would then assault the position lead by the Lt – Junior officers were over-represented in the casualty statistics. Certainly changes the view about 'Ruperts'!

I've also read quotes where basically the Bren and the 34 seemed to be taking turns- the german stated they were not firing simultaneously.

MG34/42 'Cyclic' speeds were never used in the field – and it seems the actual expenditure isn't that much more than a Bren.

I think last Hussar makes some good points. The entire idea of the base of fire is to suppress the enemy and keep their heads down while your maneuver group attacks. That does not take max firepower.

If the enemy is not putting out any return fire the automatic weapons can take turns giving them a squirt to keep their heads down. If they start to return fire go to max cyclic rate to put their heads down again. It's the job of the Squad Leader to make sure the correct RoF is being used and sectors are covered. This is where sustained fire comes in.

In WWII the Marines in the Pacific used "Barking BAR's" taking turns to keep a position suppressed.

Max cyclic rate is great in the initial stage of a firefight as volume counts to win the initial stage of the fight.

We were trained that when the maneuver group was in the position they'd give us a hand signal or fire a star flare. We'd all pour it on max cyclic rate until we got the cease-fire order from the Squad Leader. When we stopped, that was the signal for the maneuver group made their final assault and the suppressive fire group advanced towards the target.

Wolfhag