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"PBEM players wanted for 1815 campaign" Topic


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Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP28 Sep 2018 3:40 a.m. PST

Will you show maps with arrows and actions here too?

Gwen0112328 Sep 2018 9:49 a.m. PST

To second what Kevin/Gerard said : having a good idea of what your unit is supposed to do helps greatly. Having a clear mission removes a lot of doubt on where you should go and how you should act.

To 4th Cuirassier / Picton :
The beauty of the fog of war : I have no idea what those reinforcements you say I received at Hal would be, my first detached unit to rejoin arrived after the battle. Also, I believed there was one less Division in front of me when I attacked, because when the Netherland 3rd arrived, I understood it was a Regiment, not a Division. If I had understood correctly, I might not have attacked …

paul in rhb28 Sep 2018 12:51 p.m. PST

i am not technically gifted enough to put the maps on here. I have 2 scans of the maps with arrows if someone can tell me how to do it !! apologies

Personal logo 4th Cuirassier Supporting Member of TMP28 Sep 2018 4:31 p.m. PST

@ Kokolores: 17 miles is plausible. I would think depending on the state of roads etc, a reasonably well-found unit could march 15 to 20 miles in a day and then fight at the end of it.

Historically, it was a 15-hour, 21-mile march through the night for the Brunswickers from Brussels to Quatre Bras, for example. They were fit to fight perhaps because the French opposite them had marched even more – 35 miles in a night and a day – so were in no better shape (when Ney is reproved for letting his men sit around and cook the next day it's perhaps forgotten that they'd force-marched then fought a long battle).

My mistake was to assume that the terrain we were manoeuvring over was similar to the original. If it's a long day's march from Brussels to Quatre Bras then it must be a couple of days for the longer route to Ghent. In frontage the terrain was I think similar, but it was squished to a ribbon less than one day's march deep. If I'd known that, I'd have either attacked, or simply fortified Brussels and stayed put.

This was though exactly the way I've always wanted to fight a campaign – I give and receive orders and then simply find out later what happens.

What I could have done with was a conflab with Wellington early on, so we could thrash out what to do in various contingencies. The only way to organise that would be to have a private chat facility that the umpire could open and close, so you could – for a limited time – exchange messages directly, eg when supposedly at one place in person. Quite a big ask though.

I thought it was great and would do it again. I'd love to see some battle photos as this is the only think I've not seen!

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP28 Sep 2018 5:59 p.m. PST

Paul, you must upload pictures to somewhere in internet before show them here. You can do that? If not, then you may e-mail pictures to me and I do this for you.

khanscom28 Sep 2018 6:21 p.m. PST

For any who are interested, the University of Texas has a library of maps, including a substantial series of topo maps of Belgium that were prepared for the U.S. Army in the 1930s. I had stumbled on these when looking for more information about finer scale maps for expected tactical actions; Paul judged them useful for the campaign and I had a load of "fun" looking for good defensible positions near Nivelles (and a lot of good that did).

Uxbridge

khanscom28 Sep 2018 6:50 p.m. PST

@ 4th Cuirassier:
Regarding your points:
1. My own communications followed Wellington's instructions and were dated, numbered, and timed, with location from which sent. This seemed to work well for my corps, and I did receive requests from Wellington for further information when there were lapses in the numerical sequence. I did receive useful reports from distantly deployed brigades, although 3rd Cav. before I Corps was virtually outside my control due to distance-- Dornberg did perform magnificently, though.
2. Agreed; this would have proven extremely useful. Probably the greatest flaw in command.
3. Standardized performance might be too boardgame- like. I enjoyed the uncertainty of maneuver, and used reports from my scouts to estimate the times and distances of any ordered marches.
4. My brigades assigned to patrol and scouting returned useful reports (including captured documents). Most of these were in brigade strength, so I don't know if there was some comparison of relative strengths to determine success of any reconnaissance.
5. The tactical maps provided for engagements south of Nivelles and at du Laid Petard were scaled accurately enough to determine unit frontages for the tabletop; I thought this worked quite well even though on the "losing" side.

Kevin in Albuquerque28 Sep 2018 7:13 p.m. PST

I was sent the Nivelles 1930 map. Paul asked me to draw my march route on the map for the advance through the countryside east of Nivelles. My copy of the tactical battle map for the Thines battle(s) did accurately reflect the terrain of the topo. Good thing, too, as I parked my 14th Infantry Division and all the artillery on a hill overlooking the highway. It probably was a factor in holding off all those Prussian cavalry regiments.

Personal logo 4th Cuirassier Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2018 2:46 a.m. PST

I did get some intelligence and maybe some of it was from my cavalry patrols, but this wasn't always clear at the time.

This does spark a further idea though. While I agree fixed march distances per day are a bit gamey, I wonder if the answer is to have a baseline march distance beyond which you lose a random amount of the unit as stragglers. The longer the march beyond that, the greater the loss. So if you have a baseline of 16 miles a day (2mph for 8 hours) and you force-march double that, there is a good chance you'll arrive with few or no effective troops at all, just a ragged column straggling over 16 miles of road. If the march is away from the enemy, the penalties are higher (reflecting a retreating army's risk of disintegration).

If we look at epic force marches to battlefields it's easy to overlook the toll this took. IIRC Davout turned up at Austerlitz after marching 72 miles in 48 hours, but only with about 5,000 men of his 20,000-strong corps. The rest were straggling behind, I guess.

paul in rhb30 Sep 2018 1:14 p.m. PST

hi.. i should have set up a blog page for pics…apologies… if some one would like to do so i can send pics from 4 or 5 battles along with the commentary text.

paul@navigatorpr.com

The 1930s maps were invaluable

link

Please delete me03 Oct 2018 9:17 a.m. PST

Awesome!

I would love to be a corps commander in your next go around if you're having it!

Great idea!

paul in rhb04 Oct 2018 4:30 a.m. PST

Many thanks… i tend to do a game every 5 years at my current rate !!

paul in rhb04 Oct 2018 4:32 a.m. PST

Wellington's report
15th June 1815. The day's events.

I wanted to see what was happening and to keep in close contact to the various corps commanders rather than relying on couriers.

Without reviewing all the correspondence, my recollection is that the first intimation of enemy activity came from Uxbridge at Quatre Bras.

Uxbridge went to reconnoitre enemy activity reported at Charleroi and I was concerned that a significant push there would split us from the Prussians. Obviously the Anglo Allied force must co-operate with the Prussians to defeat the French as individually neither the Anglo-Allied forces nor the Prussians are not strong enough to defeat them.

I still had heard nothing from the west. In the west were placed cavalry screens to cover and report on enemy movements. I had anticipated that these screens would have alerted me in sufficient time to react to any French advance there, especially as the main bodies of troops were held back from the frontier to allow them to move to wherever they were required. A deployment too far forward may have exposed them to the possibility of being overwhelmed in a sudden French assault.

As it was midday and I had heard nothing from the west, apart from confirmation that it was quiet, I decided that the main French assault must be falling further east, especially as there had been reports of 3 French Corps at Binche and a corps south of Charleroi. Because of this I decided that the army should concentrate at Quatre Bras, to counter the perceived threat from these 4 French army corps and to be able to assist the Prussians if necessary.

It was whilst travelling towards Quatre Bras at 1.30 pm about that messages arrived from the west, giving accounts of large numbers of cuirassiers moving along the Leuze road, towards Ghent, as well as other troop movements in the west. Uxbridge commented on the movement of the cuirassiers as follows: ‘Most relevant, in my opinion, is the presence of a corps of cuirassiers at Leuze on the road to Ghent. I know not upon what mistaken principle this maneuver was undertaken, but I am concerned that the two brigades of cavalry attached to I Corps may be insufficient to repel this advance.'

If it was the intention that the cuirassiers were headed towards Ghent then I believed Ghent was lost, given the time the report had been written, the time it had taken to get to me and the time it would take to get to the troops for them to act. In the slim hope there may a chance I wrote to the Prince of Orange asking him to despatch a division the Ghent where I thought should they arrive before the cuirassiers then in the confines of the city they may have a good chance of success.

I then went towards the west to see for myself what was going on. I heard artillery fire from the direction of Braine le Compte and in the hope that we may be able to influence the fighting I instructed Picton to march there. Unfortunately the fighting had been concluded by the time we were underway and our first indication of the result was when some discomfited British light cavalry appeared pursued by French guard heavy cavalry. Rather than continue the march to Braine le Compte and take on the French imperial guard without cavalry support I decided a retreat to Hal was appropriate.

Picton had already thoughtfully prepared Hal for defence.
Captured despatches indicated the presence of the imperial guard in Mons, then in Soignes and finally in Braine le Compte, and of three other corps, one of which was in Ath and then later in Enghien. Furthermore there were the French corps at Binche or Roeulx and the cuirassiers at Ghent

In view of this we took up defensive positions in Hal and Nivelles to counter attacks from Binche, Braine le Compte and/or Enghien. The Prince of Orange's corps was en route from Enghien to Hal and part of the cavalry corps was at Waterloo on its way to Hal, as I believed that the decisive battle would be fought there.

There remained the possibility that the cuirassiers at Ghent might attempt to repeat their feat of taking Ghent by similarly marching on Brussels, though fatigue must have taken its toll on their ability to do this.
Urgent despatches have been sent to the Prussians for support.

16th June 1815.

The loss of Ghent was a major blow. Much of our stores were taken by the enemy and some of the Dutch Belgian troops deserted. However, the loss of Brussels would be a much greater blow and if it were to be lost then the ability of the British Army to stay in the field would be compromised. French forces at Ghent, Braine le Compte and Binche (or Roeulx) all could easily march into Brussels within hours unless opposed.

Due to intelligence during the night it was believed that the French imperial guard supported by a corps at Enghien was to attack Hal in the morning.

Due to the delays in receiving reports during the 15th I decided to remain at Waterloo in anticipation that the couriers would be able to find me more quickly. General Picton was asked to take overall command in Hal and the Prince of Orange was agreeable to this.

General Picton was asked to defend the east bank of the River Senne both at Hal and at Brussels. I cannot recall his precise reply but it did involve the unorthodox use of a brush.

As the Prince of Orange was between Enghien and Hal I did anticipate his corps' imminent arrival at Hal.
At 7.00 a despatch (from General Uxbridge I recall) arrived which both contained a captured despatch and news that General Blucher was approaching Nivelle. The captures despatch stated the French imperial guard was to march on Nivelles and not Hal.

This necessitated a rapid change of plan. Unfortunately it was at this juncture that Mrs Miggins served my breakfast and I quite forgot about despatches and such like until 8.00. Once I had finished my breakfast the despatches were sent.

Essentially the despatch to General Picton asked him to defend (and preferably destroy) the bridges over the River Senne at both Hal and Brussels. The defence to be undertaken by the minimum forces possible. At the very least this would slow down any advance on Brussels by troops at Enghien and Ghent. Destruction of the bridges may have temporarily isolated a significant part of the French army on the west side of the River Senne.
The bulk of General Picton's and the Prince of Orange's troops were then to march to Waterloo as quickly as possible, but to be ready to vary the line of march as the situation dictated.

At the same time the despatch to General Hill informed him of Picton's movements and should he feel he had insufficient strength to resist the enemy then to fall back towards Waterloo.

In the end I ought not to have been concerned about the delay in sending the despatches as the despatch to General Hill never arrived (I think I sent it twice to be sure), and General Picton and different plans (and a different geography as it turned out).

In light of the intelligence of the movements of the imperial guard and the approach of Blucher I instead sent the cavalry at Waterloo to General Hill, together with Lord Hill's Dutch division, which had been roughly handled by the imperial guard at Braine le Compte on the 15th.

I had intended to go to Nivelles to confer with General Blucher but the non-arrival of the Prince of Orange's corps concerned me and so I went towards Hal at about 10.30.

Shortly after I set off, a despatch from General Picton confirmed the arrival of the Prince of Orange's corps at Hal. However, General Picton was deployed on the west side of the River Senne and was about to engage with a French force. As retiring in the face of the enemy across a river is a fraught enterprise I wished him well in his battle and resumed my original course of action, namely conferring with Blucher.

(It transpires that on General Picton's map Hal is on the west side of the River Senne, as is the main road from Hal to Brussels, and that the River Halle flows east-west. This would account for various the comments made by General Picton to me in his despatches.)

Approaching Nivelles I found General Hill preparing to defend a ridge, some distance from the Prussians. Unfortunately I became unwell and the next thing I can remember was being in Waterloo again.
It was about this time that news began to arrive that the French had also captured Brussels.

The conference at Waterloo was particularly acrimonious. It transpired that General Picton had been discomfited at Hal, though he had brought a significant amount of his troops to Waterloo, leaving the Prince of Orange to defend the river crossing at Hal. I again became unwell and had to retire to my sick bed.

General Uxbridge took command but the French were pursuing us closely and our remaining forces were overwhelmed.

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Nov 2018 6:19 p.m. PST

Here are maps of campaign and pictures/text about one battle Paul sended to me.
boki.ee/Wargame/Paul/PAUL.htm

Also question.. are there players if I will organize similar simple campaign game?

Kevin in Albuquerque22 Nov 2018 8:30 p.m. PST

Yes to the players question.

Would it be useful to post the players movement maps on the web page? I'd be happy to send mine.

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Nov 2018 4:24 a.m. PST

Yes, of cource I may upload more maps. Thanks!

Who want to play, please also point out your preferred period and nation.

holdit23 Nov 2018 4:54 a.m. PST

Yes, please. Any time between 1792 and 1815, preference French.

leofwine 323 Nov 2018 6:39 a.m. PST

yes to the players question

Mike the Analyst23 Nov 2018 9:36 a.m. PST

Count me in

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Nov 2018 9:57 a.m. PST

4 against 4 is minimum to start. Half of needed number of possible players are together.

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Nov 2018 8:14 a.m. PST

We may move here with this new game..
theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=495205

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