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"New BBC serial - Troy" Topic

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JARROVIAN Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2018 1:57 a.m. PST

Saw this on the BBC news site

Troy: Fall of a City will be begin at 9.10pm, 17 February, on BBC One.

JARROVIAN Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2018 1:59 a.m. PST

Echo posts caused by very slow uptake on the create new post button

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2018 4:17 a.m. PST

Documentary or fiction?

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2018 4:21 a.m. PST

I just looked at images apparently most of the Acheans are portrayed by Black actors!!! PC gone mad!

Double W Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 4:31 a.m. PST

You're upset about black actors? Yeah, how dare a fantasy show about an imaginary war not be completely historically accurate. What's next? A Shakespeare play set in modern times? *Runs to fainting couch*

BalinBalan Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 4:48 a.m. PST

The first episode is called'Black Blood". That might help, Nick?

Double W Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 4:52 a.m. PST

On second thought, I agree with you the show is PC garbage. I mean, all those lily-white Brits portraying Greeks and other darker-skinned people in what is now Turkey? I'm sure you were going to get to that.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2018 5:41 a.m. PST

Here is the IMDB write up, Zeus is portrayed by a Black actor!

Double W Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 5:54 a.m. PST

Zeus is black! Somebody hide the children!

Just keep digging man. Just keep digging.

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 6:00 a.m. PST

looks interesting to me.

mad monkey 108 Feb 2018 6:08 a.m. PST

Double W, would you be fine with a white guy playing Shaka Zulu?

Double W Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 6:14 a.m. PST

In a historical movie? No. In a work of fiction not meant to be historical? Depends on the context.

I take it you guys get really mad thinking about Hamilton.

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 6:39 a.m. PST

so sad that the imdb site is filled with racist rants about this and nothing about the content and qulaity of the story or acting.

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2018 6:45 a.m. PST

True, though the author of one review claims to be Greek. It is just a shame that media can't leave history alone.

GurKhan08 Feb 2018 7:22 a.m. PST

I just looked at images apparently most of the Acheans are portrayed by Black actors!!!

"Most" = "a couple of them": Achilles and Patroklos are black, but not Agamemnon or Menelaus or Helen or Odysseus or Ajax or ….

Zeus is portrayed by a Black actor!

As opposed to a swan, or a bull, or a shower of gold? He's a god, he can look like whatever he likes!

Double W Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 7:29 a.m. PST

The Iliad isn't history, unless you are talking about the history of literature and mythic tradition.

JimDuncanUK08 Feb 2018 8:12 a.m. PST

Troy, Troy?

Was there a battle once or am I flogging a dead horse?


Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP08 Feb 2018 8:17 a.m. PST

Let's not forget Prince Memnon of Aethiopia. Doesn't appear in the Iliad, but has a prominent chapter in Quintus of Smyrna.
When I was into Troy gaming, I used Ral Parthia chariots and Wargames Foundry Nubians as Aethiopians. Sue me if you don't like it.

And here's a shocker. He was the father of Thor. Yes, THAT Thor. And that's from Snorri Sturulson's Prose Edda. op cit
So why is Thor in his eponymous Marvel comic always shown with blond hair? And in the movies!
So if Don Cheadle was cast as Thor, some here would have the vapors, although it would certainly be as historically correct as the Iliad.

I would like to point out, relevant to the above, that I am …amused… by African American actors playing Hamlet's father in a Shakespeare in the Park production, but I don't rend my garments in anguish.

BalinBalan Inactive Member08 Feb 2018 11:13 a.m. PST

"…one review claims to be Greek."

But the Greeks of today are not the Greeks of Achaea… Probably more Trojan.

Swampking09 Feb 2018 5:47 a.m. PST

Big pass. Who thinks up this crap? Black actors portraying Greeks? A black actor portraying Zeus? PC stupidity taken to the ultimate point of lunacy.

What's next – an Eskimo portraying Robert E. Lee? How about a Chinese actor portraying Washington?

How far must we go to satisfy the Leftie Loons?

Thor? A black guy? The comic books portray him as blonde because they are comic books, hence, the movies are based on the comic books. From what I remember of the Eddas, Thor is as Nordic as Nordic could be and no where is Prince Memnon mentioned as is father.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2018 6:11 a.m. PST

Your beef is with the Wikipedia article I cited above.
That's where I got the Prose Edda quote.
Trace it back through there.

Near the earth's centre was made that goodliest of homes and haunts that ever have been, which is called Troy, even that which we call Turkland. This abode was much more gloriously made than others, and fashioned with more skill of craftsmanship in manifold wise, both in luxury and in the wealth which was there in abundance. There were twelve kingdoms and one High King, and many sovereignties belonged to each kingdom; in the stronghold were twelve chieftains. These chieftains were in every manly part greatly above other men that have ever been in the world. One king among them was called Múnón or Mennón; and he was wedded to the daughter of the High King Priam, her who was called Tróán; they had a child named Trór, whom we call Thor.[18]

He's talking about his main thesis that the founders (?) of the Vikings were refugees from Troy.
But if having a black Thor offends you, be my guest. I can't stop you.

daler240D Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member09 Feb 2018 7:52 a.m. PST

I don't understand. So are you people raging racists? Or are you so constrained in your imagination that you think someone can only be cast of a certain complexion for a role in a tv show?!?! Does it really jar your sensibilities that much? Do you really think that the producers are in some conspiracy to change people's perceptions about history with their casting choices? You must have very difficult lives trying to cope with day to day things.

foxweasel09 Feb 2018 7:57 a.m. PST

Only on TMP can people whinge and whine about a tv programme that they haven't actually seen. How about we all wait til it's been on before slating it?

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2018 8:32 a.m. PST

Winston, that is very interesting about the connections between Norse mythology and refugees from Troy.

There are many stories from the early Middle Ages that describe Britain being settled by refugees from Troy. Geoffrey Of Monmouth, for example, recounts probably older accounts that Britain was named after its first King, Brutus, who supposedly came here from Troy.

Intriguing that there are certain similarities…

JARROVIAN Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2018 9:08 a.m. PST

How about this:-


Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2018 11:07 a.m. PST

Supporting Member of TMP 08 Feb 2018 5:41 a.m. PST
Here is the IMDB write up, Zeus is portrayed by a Black actor!

Paris looks like a whiny entitled millennial. Check.
Diomedes looks like a real badass gangster. Check.
Ok. I'm good.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2018 11:42 a.m. PST

Were were you guardians when Idris Elba played Heimdall in "Thor Ragnarok?"
Or when a luscious babe with dark hair (Jaimie Alexander) played Sif?


Double W Inactive Member09 Feb 2018 2:03 p.m. PST

A few years ago I saw a stage adaptation of Oedipus Rex that had some black actors in the cast. Who cares? It is a work of fiction, not a historical document.

The same with this show. If you think "history" means the Greek gods were real, then you're way past logic. And stop complaining about the black actors when most of the Greeks and Trojans are played by very pale British actors. (In fact, according to IMBD, Aphrodite is played by a pale redhead. Unless Aphrodite is Irish, not sure how that is "historically accurate.")

If we were talking about a movie that was claiming to present a realistic portrait of a historical event, then you would have a point. But this is FANTASY. It didn't happen. It is a mythic tradition that rose out of a real event, but the Iliad is not history any more than Lord of the Rings is history.

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP09 Feb 2018 6:26 p.m. PST

Argh!!! It's just as bad as all those Hollywood portrayals of Biblical and Christian myths where Moses and Jesus and the entire population of Israel aren't played by folks of Jewish descent, and Pharaoh and the Egyptians aren't played by Egyptians.

Folks really should complain about this version of Troy just as much as they have complained about those PC renditions.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2018 5:59 a.m. PST

As for Achilles and Patroclus being portrayed by "African American" actors. (Yes, I'm being silly PC.)
Both are from Phthia, which would make them Thessalian hillbillies.
However (it's been in all the papers lately!) the recent news that the earliest Briton had dark skin and was probably lactose intolerant, renders outrage again problematic.

Following up on earlier discussion on this thread, I found the Geoffrey of Monmouth suggestion that the earliest Britons were, once again, Trojan exiles. He suggested that "Briton" was related to "Brutus", a Trojan name.

Let's face it guys. Skin color was probably irrelevant back then. Dwayne The Rock or Lebron James would probably be good choices for Ajax.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2018 10:08 a.m. PST

Sooo… Everyone who DOESN'T think it's OK to use Italians for American Indians is now racist?

Just checking.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2018 12:38 p.m. PST

Stop trying to be logical. That is so unlike TMP. We don't put up with no logical stuff around these here parts.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2018 1:56 p.m. PST

And as apology for my logic, I offer the only article I can find which discusses characters--only the female characters, it's true, and only two of them--but at least characters.


Even from the BBC propagandists, there seems to be no discussion of dialogue, costuming, the reconstruction of Troy--and which layer and date DID they pick?--and so on down the list. This is one of the most re-told stories in human history. We all know the principal cast, and we all know how the story ends. If you're going to tell it again, there needs to be something interesting about how you tell it. The Beeb should be glad there's some fuss over their casting, because it looks as though otherwise no one would be talking about it at all.

deephorse11 Feb 2018 5:16 a.m. PST

This is one of the most re-told stories in human history. We all know the principal cast, and we all know how the story ends. If you're going to tell it again, there needs to be something interesting about how you tell it.

On the contrary. YOU might know everything about the story, but there will be large numbers of the intended audience that will be coming to it for the first time. This will be their introduction to the tale, just like you once read/heard/saw it for the first time. The BBC/Netflix are not just catering to you Robert.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2018 12:06 p.m. PST

The Iliad was just one rendition of the story. Consult just Bullfinch or Graves, and you will find a heck of a lot more "alternative" storylines.

The writeups I've seen include Shakespeare and Chaucer as sources.
So expect a lot of hot Troilus and Cressida action, NOT from the Iliad, yet also based on "solid" ancient sources.
Btw, the famous Trojan Horse isn't in the Iliad either.

Can't we just accept this as just another sword and sandal epic, as just another lame attempt to be "the next Game of Thrones", and cheer for Paris to get slewn?

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