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"Cold Wars Flames of War Tournament " Topic

8 Posts

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506 hits since 1 Feb 2018
©1994-2019 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Rangers Lead the Way01 Feb 2018 12:03 a.m. PST

Checked the PEL didn't see one listed or am I just blind.

lindrp01 Feb 2018 3:41 a.m. PST

You are not blind

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP01 Feb 2018 5:06 a.m. PST

There are 6 guys in my regular FoW group. Five of them (but not me) had been VERY regular tournament players, back when V3 was played. Not any more.
There is an almost universal disdain for V4 among the old group, and also the old tournament players.
Most have moved on to Ancients tournaments, like L'art de la Guerre.

Flames of War tournaments have been devastated by the ill advised "upgrade" to V4.

I find it ironic that hard core WWII players had disdain for FoW, because of its relative simplicity. Battlefront's solution was to further dummy it down.
Until Battlefront comes to its senses and returns to V3, I doubt that you will see many, if any FoW tournaments.

TMPWargamerabbit01 Feb 2018 8:38 a.m. PST

Except for pockets of players across the USA, the experienced player base panned out the Ver4.0 rules, mostly due to the slow release schedule, weak list design, dropped miniature teams in platoons, poor point conversion to EW/LW periods, and narrow range MW theater rollout. Only if the Ver4.0 were "near perfect" and without endless FAQ and LFTF forum requirement plus play-testing done proper would acceptance been universal. Our group retained play with Ver3.0 (now Ver3.1 with some modernization of the rules). Some claim TY is keeping the groups together…. if you wish to play modern warfare and the only local tourney has been TY themed.

And true to their business, BF quickly deletes commentary on their forum about the decline of play after being pounded by the experienced players on the Ver4.0 rules and above talking points. Cannot blame them from their business viewpoint but it gives the appearance they are hiding the decline of FOW WWII gaming from the public, who actually see the results local and in regional conventions. BF best efforts cannot hid the result as wargamers communicate.

Would think by now the Ver4.0 rules and releases would be sufficient to satisfy the FOW WWII experienced gamers, if properly front-loaded and quickly printed. Been almost a full year for Ver4.0 but they are still stuck in the desert with incomplete lists and armies.

VonTed01 Feb 2018 9:01 a.m. PST

The FOW forums have become very stale, I used to go there alot but since V4 I have really tapered off. And I also noticed they delete dissent pretty quick… too bad FoW was really what got me in to wargaming in the first place.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP01 Feb 2018 11:25 a.m. PST

One of the charms of the V3 "codices" was the numerous special units.
I have 8th Army, as an example. I can field the famous Kingforce, if I want to have Churchill's.
In the German books for Market Garden, each of the unique mini Hun Kampfgruppen are listed in detail.
V4 insists on being as generic as possible, losing all flavor.
That's just one complaint.
Go back less than a month when the Italians came out. Cue the chorus. "But what about the …..?

historygamer01 Feb 2018 12:16 p.m. PST

Not being a FoW tournament player, I am curious why a V3 tournament can't be run instead of V4? Wouldn't that choice be up to whomever is organizing the tournament?

TMPWargamerabbit01 Feb 2018 6:31 p.m. PST

Basic reason for Ver3.0 vs. Ver4.0 is the rules for Ver3.0 are now out of print. Secondary market sources still have copies. I purchase a new very cheap set off Ebay last fall as a spare. Plus there are the "mini-books" floating around which covered the Ver2.0 to Ver3.0 changeover. They have the majority of the rules except fortifications and some missions I think.

But the main reason why only Ver4.0 tournaments….. the prize support. Local stores or even BF will only support Ver4.0 events. That is what version they sell so Ver3.0 players are just out of luck unless they self organize.

For myself… I run large Ver3.0 games at the local and regional conventions. For LAX OrcCon in two weeks a large American vs. Soviet post war May 1945 scenario is scheduled called Operation Overcast. It involves the American JIOA and Soviet NKVD special teams, backed up by American and Soviet late war forces, to find the German high tech war research, equipment or hardware, and the scientist/ technicians behind the wonder weapons. The threat of open warfare exists and will happen during scenario play.

Link to scenario and a previous trial game AAR:

If in the Los Angeles area on February 17th, come to LAX Strategicon – OrcCon and join in.

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