"The angriest I've ever been in my toy soldier life..." Topic

Hey all,

Well, some years after the incident, I've finally posted about the most infuriating thing that's ever happened to me in the toy soldier world.

I'd love for folks to give it a look, and tell me their thoughts. My mind was BLOWN.

link

Greetings,

It's possible that a young child or a pet tore up your ACW figures. If that's the case, that reveals a lack of responsibility on the part of the person who borrowed your collection, both to you and to the child or pet who could been harmed by swallowing metal wargame figures.

If the person who tore up your figures was an "adult", I'd guess that your figures were torn up out of anger and/or maliciousness. The culprit might not have been the borrower himself, but someone with whom the borrower was involved. The destruction of your figures might have been just one more painful and embarrassing incident among many others with which the borrower had to cope, which might explain why he never offered you an apology or explanation.

It's possible that the borrower did the damage himself. If you did nothing to provoke him (and I'm guessing you didn't), it's possible that mental illness was an issue, maybe even substance abuse.

My wife has lovingly told me that I'm a "worst case scenario kind of guy", so please bear that in mind when considering my ideas.

Jeff

Interesting ideas…

The person who did it does not have any children, so I don't think it was that. I remember that, when I asked "What the hell happened…?" he said something about rebasing them to the right size… but that just baffled me, because the entire collection was rebased to match…

He always seemed like a nice guy, but someone else afterwards shared a similar story, where they lent the person some figures and got them back, and the guy had dipped them because he said they would look better. Dipped someone else's figures. Just mind blowing.

I … think it's horribly selfish of me, but I still usually stick to my guns. I have been asked if people can borrow my figures or games, and more often than not I say "no".

My own thought is that after the time, attention, and frankly the money invested, my games really shouldn't be out having a better time than I am.

Exceptions happen, and I've never been bitten by something going horribly wrong. But still, the philosophy guides my decisions.

I feel your pain. That sucks. Are you going to fix the army?

I would be meeting the person in a nearby park at dawn and choosing weapons.

Totally unacceptable, I have had figures and terrain damaged in the past by accident (when a friend's cellar flooded) and thats cricket but this is a deliberate act.

If the Police didn't get called you have reacted better than I.

Regards Ken
yarkshiregamer.blogspot.co.uk

This isn't a knock on you and your decisions, but I would never loan my figures out to anybody.

Jeigheff's initial thoughts matched mine – a child/pet/someone else got hold of them and did it.

But that doesn't excuse handing them back in that condition without an apology. Or making some attempt to put it right.

Jeigheff's second paragraph is also a possibility – something slightly along those lines happened to me many years ago.

I can understand why you'd be annoyed/upset : you'd put a lot of effort in and it got treated with contempt.

Well, I think it's unbelievable and personally, I wouldn't be in a hurry to find generous possible reasons for such behaviour. I would call it unforgivable, bearing in mind the lack of explanation and apology.

What I find almost as astonishing is the casual acceptance by you of the other two armies that you didn't get back at all. Two whole armies? That's incredible. At least the insensitive vandal who destroyed your painstaking basing returned the figures

Astonishing behaviour for sure.

DBDD

Just a question, you are understandably upset about the condition of the returned figures, are you not equally upset about the ones that never got returned?

Does the guy fish? Golf?
Do you see him occasionally?
Ask what he would think if his clubs were returned in like conditions.

Guitar…
Stradivarius…
Stamp collection…
Car…
Girlfriend… ((Just kidding!))

It's all about not respecting another's property.

My second reaction: "get out your checkbook you just bough an army. Let's start at $10 USD per stand. If you can't at once consider how you will discuss this with Nunzio."

You should have challenged him on the spot, then involved the local police. You would not let some joker damage your house or car so why should your figures be any different?
Maybe a civil case for damages is in order?

After handling the fallout of breaking that persons nose, I would have been equally aggressive about recovering the other two armies. I assume you never gamed with those people again.

This chap obviously used them for his own games, tearing bases apart.
Personally I would go back to him and demand an explanation and apology. Plus if you are of a mind, restitution of some kind.

I would not lend out any figures unless I thoroughly trusted the person. Any of our group I would be fine with. I once had my entire ACW collection plus terrain used in the "Diary of a Wimpy Kid" movies. I was paid good money and everything came back in perfect order.

I hate you had to go through this, as it left a open wound that still smarts. But like Cleburne, I never loan out my miniatures. Nobody is going to take care of them like I do.

I think I would be more upset about the armies that were essentially stolen from you.

The wargaming community tends to be relatively small – I would make sure everyone knows(perhaps as you are doing through your blog)- however, after giving each person a chance to make things right I would have named names.

It would also be the last time I ever gained with any of the 3 individuals – in any fashion

I have always only loaned figures to people I regularly game with because I have noticed how they handled my figures when playing games I have set up. I would never loan figures to people I have not had any gaming experience with.

I would have asked first before rebasing them if I believed they were incorrect--and provided an explanation, like I understood the basing was changing with the new version of the rules.

What I don't understand is that not only did he mess up rather nice basing, he went to a great deal of trouble to do so. I can understand accidents, "My wife/cat/dog/hamster spilled coffee on the bases," for example. Unless I thought I could make the repairs so you wouldn't notice, I still wouldn't rebase them--I'd talk to you first.

Like others, I'm thinking no respect for others' property.

I wonder if it is a sort of resentfulness--if I don't have nice toys, you can't either.

Grelber

I've visited your blog many times over the years and seen your excellent collection and how well you obviously value and regard the things you have made and collected. I emphasise with your situation. Although time will heal your anger you'll probably never forget the incident. You may need to become a less generous person than you appear to be unless you are prepared to suffer some losses of different kinds.

A man who first became my best friend almost forty years ago often used to want to borrow books off me. He is an intelligent and capable person who now holds a fairly senior position in the airforce. The first time he borrowed a book from me it came back dog-eared and frayed with a large dirt-coloured smudge on the edges of the pages. I allowed it to happen twice again with the similar results. The longer it was in his 'care' the worse the condition it was returned in to me. There was never an explanation or apology: they were just handed back (once after many requests for it's return) with a simple thanks. I had to change my ways and not loan things out anymore except in very rare instances. I also have very strong suspicions than he is responsible for a Panzer III (excellently modelled and given to me by another friend) that 'went missing' about thirty years ago after playing a weekend of games with him about thirty years ago: it was never seen again. I let that friendship die about fifteen years ago by simply not contacting him but I saw him again a couple of years ago at a fiftieth birthday for another friend and he didn't seem any different or in anyway puzzled by a lack of contact.

Unfortunately, some people are just self-centred so can't really be trusted with anything. Try not to lose your generous nature but be more circumspect in individuals until they have proved their ability to care for other people's things.

If I was on the jury for you on a murder charge I would have acquitted you hands down.

YouTube link

I started out gaming with Airfix soldiers and Minitanks with my then best friend. The Airfix soldiers were a rubbery plastic and pretty much indestructible but the Minitanks were hard plastic and he could never handle them without breaking bits off. I wrote it off to him just being clumsy but later on found out he was jealous of virtually everything I did well and he didn't. His jealousy and envy turned into hatred that surfaced through petty acts of destruction and a truly harmful spreading of stories making me out as some sort of nut case capable of anything. The man who handed back your figures destroyed was either brain dead insensitive or did so with malice aforethought. If the latter he was the same as spitting on you. Disgusting behavior.

When I was 13/14, we had a school project on the Mutiny on the bounty to do. Being interested in history and modelling etc, I not only did my essay, but did up a plastic model of the "Bounty"….anyway, one of the boys in my class destroyed it at lunch….I remember I was quite shocked, not to say upset, that someone would do this…I asked him what that was all about and he said he hated the fact that I did better than him. As I learned later he was a bit of an arrogant superior a#*ehole.

There is no excuse for that level of damage, to go unexplained or apologised for.

It may have been pets/kids etc, but even so the person who borrowed the figures has a duty of care to return them in a good state of repair.

At the very least they should have explained, and offered a token of good will to you for the repairs.

I have loaned out figures, and yes watched as someone dropped a NEWLY painted and based artillery piece and crew. They immediately apologised. Fortunately, no real damage that a dab of stupid glue couldn't fix, and they were sufficiently contrite that I still put them up overnight at my place.

I operate a three strikes and they're out policy. I don't let people take my possessions away with them except when they have a track record of returning them in good nick. So a mate borrowed a book recently signed by the author, and returned it to me in good condition as I would expect.

Being nearly 6'2" built like the proverbial outhouse, and being a red head ( as the Yeoman Warder said, "Never upset a red head" youtu.be/jWFq-v7TKdQ?t=11m13s ) may also help.

Hey guys!

Appreciate the sympathy… yeah, it is INFURIATING. I just don't get it… if I borrowed toy soldiers from someone, I would take SUCH care of them!

As for the two "missing" armies… yeah, I don't know. Part of it is that I understand the sentiment of the people better… lazy and not thinking of me… whereas I just don't understand the thought process behind this mess, you know? Also I guess I know they are still out there somewhere, okay.

Yeah, insane. I haven't lent out a figure since then. And its a damn, damn shame.

It is simply extraordinary the sorts of misbehaviour that some folk can somehow rationalise to themselves. I've pretty much stopped loaning out books because I've had too many of those "who the hell borrowed that" sinking feelings as I've searched unsuccessfully on the shelves.

Has anyone thought of asking for collateral if some one wants to borrow your figures?

Perhaps a trade for something of sentimental value? Although you run the risk of losing it your self. Best stick to money.

How much would you charge? Half the cost of figs? Half figs and paint job?

They get it back when they return the figs in good order.

Also how much damage is ok?

As said, acts of god like flooding or fire, I would be considerate, but still require reimbursement, at some point.

Some chips or scratches, I think is just part of the risk you take loaning them out, so cant complain too much. Lots of chips and scratches, on the other hand…

A missing figure or two, I would ask for them to try to find them. A grunt, eh…, A hero, I may ask for money or something of value.

I never let people borrow my figures if they are going to remove them from my sight. I loan figures to other players _WHILE_ I am in the same room. I _NEVER_ allow others to literally borrow them unless… they are __VERY__ close friends. No exceptions… it doesn't make sense otherwise. If I'm not there, they can't use them. End of story. You learned a hard lesson and I'm sorry that happened.

Don

I had a complete army rebased in storage. I wasn't thrilled by one organizational shift, but I have to admit the basing was an improvement overall.

One army loaned out came back with some castings swapped out. The borrower may have felt she was legitimately entitled, but since she'd asked for the loan of the troops, I didn't care much for the approach.

And the last book I loaned out was eaten by the borrower's Bernese Mountain Dog, which proves Groucho Marx was right: "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."

It was worth losing a mass market paperback to have an excuse for that line.

What I don't get is why you loaned them out I the first place? I have been in several campaign games and nobody loaned out figures for any reason. We generated and played the battles on Saturdays when we were all present. We used one another's figures but it didn't even occurred to us to let someone leave with our figures. I would have called the cops.

What can I say, I'm an idiot! :) The thing is, everyone was supposed to be able to play everyone else whenever… we wouldn't all always be together, but instead people could play their campaign games whenever they could. That's why I gave folks the armies… so they could play.

Campaign games are iffy at best. You find out real fast who are really into the hobby and who are your true friends. So much depends on people showing up and providing figures and terrain. Everyone is responsible for doing their part and sadly these types of games just don't work out. At least in my experience.

I stopped lending anything out years ago – books that get destroyed, stolen or covered in curry, DVDs that are scratched and so on.

This is why I will never lend miniatuers out – my players either have their own figures, or I make up the forces for both sides and they are used for a game.

My freshman year in college I loaned a chess set to a dorm mate whom I knew casually, but who seemed like a nice guy. The set was not costly, it was just a plastic table board with fair sized plastic pieces. The set came back with the crowns broken off the Kings. No explanation and a genuine thanks for the loan. I didn't say anything, but I wondered if a friend of his had snapped them off and he never noticed, or if he had done it for whatever reason. Maybe the crosses offended him on religious grounds? In any case, it taught me that there are people who can't be trusted with physical objects on loan. One then has to weigh whether the potential loss is worth the loaning. Though I always try to remind myself that the person is more important than the thing.

No excuse for treating our stuff like that. Folk often say "he is quite clever", "seemed nice" , those are just wrong. If men act like that they are OBVIOUSLY dis -respectful toward others and deserve no help from apologists. They are like that in their other life dealings too i suspect. A persons chacater will show through in all aspects of their demeanour.
I sympathise with you as that damage is appalling. My personal response would be to make it clear to your associates what has happened and let others be warned.
You need to cheer yourself up by naming a unit commander after each of the players that dishonoured your armies (3?). make those 3 names into unit commanders but ensure they are the worst units in your army. Every time that unit gets routed or lets a flank down etc mention the name of that commander in your battle reports. Along the lines of "once again Alan Dubbs proved useless at his job. He was given a simple task but failed to use the minimum of intelligence to carry it out" . It will give you some joy each time. Make sure the battle reports get out there! Alan Dubbs will get to hear about it.

I'm plainly horrified. No words for this.

The damage is pretty bad, btw, right? Like… holy hell. Why in the hell would you cut the bases in half, and then glue them right onto bases that are the same size?

Jesus I'm getting angry again…

I learned the hard way, at a young age, that most people don't take care of their things, and certainly not others belongings, the way I do. After two bad experiences in my teens, I never lent anything out to anyone again. That doesn't just cover miniatures (which would never, ever happen – you wanna play, you gotta pay – go buy your own stuff), but includes books, magazines, CD's, DVD's, tools, automobile, you name it. I don't share. :^)

Ive lent figures to two people. One is my best friend of 25+ years, helped get me through a divorce and has been there for me dozens of times. If something came back broken I wouldn't take the money he would offer, I probably still owe him beer money. The other is a woman I've known for 20 years through the local gaming club. They've done a lot for the club and I'm confident they would make it right. Hell I loaned their kid a camera for a high school course, more expensive than a box of minis…

On the one hand, a certain amount of wear and gear is to be expected – they are game pieces after all. I have lent out and borrowed friends troops without issue other than said minor wear and tear, although there was that time I dropped a box of Barry's infamous Russian Dragoons -I profusely apologized for the accidental damage.

Not returning borrowed troops, altering the basing or paint jobs on loaned troops – unthinkable!

Appalling behavior Lord Ashram, you were right to be so furious.

I would suspect you feel too many years have passed now for any recompense? Personally I expect some one who borrows figures to return them as they left, and if not they either do the work to get them back to that standard, or foot the bill for someone else to do it.

I've lent stuff out many times to friends over the years and never ever had a problem.

That said, I've made it very clear on no uncertain terms that whilst happy to lend, you only get one chance with me.

I have occasionally borrowed stuff and always made sure they are returned in the condition they were lent in.

I think it's truly appalling and I'd be livid it my stuff were treated with such respect and disdain.

This person would be dead to me.

I never lend anything. I learnt that as a young kid when I lent my battleships game to a friend and it never came back.

I wish I could believe this thing did not happen.

known too many gamer's to not believe it.

You were very very kind, its sad that your generosity was thus repaid.

no honor, no class.

First, sorry for your bad experience.

I had a friend that if you were the lend something to him, he treated as if it was his own. As in, never even thinking of giving it back. It took a few turn before I understood what was going on.

At the risk of victim blaming…I'm kind of surprised you aren't more pissed at the people that couldn't be bothered to even return them. Is it a schroedinger's cat thing in your mind? Since the other figures can't be seen they are neither broken nor intact?? Sounds like you play with really crappyy a-holes. So let me get this straight. You decided it is ok to loan figures to THREE guys and ALL of them screw you over??? You need to recalibrate something about how you choose whom to associate with. Sorry.

Given that I don't know all the facts, I'm not so quick to pass judgement. The figures were mistreated. No doubt about that. It's the malicious intent part that I'm not so sure of. I had a friend that was not very careful with his miniatures. Water damaged or mismatched bases like those, or dropped stuff was par for the course with him. So, this could be just a case of utter carelessness.

Another thing I was wondering about was that since two of the three groups of figures haven't been returned at all, could it be that it was unclear that these figures were just temporary loaners rather than gifts of old figures that you did a quick touch-up on?

If so, perhaps the fellow that actually returned the miniatures (and, for what it's worth, I'd be way more upset with the guys that just kept them) felt they were his to do with as he pleased and he cut some of the bases in half to use them for skirmish gaming. Then, when you asked for them back he glued the single figure bases back onto another base of the appropriate size to "fix" them.

Yeah, I know. A lot of conjecture on my part. Whatever the case, sorry your good will gesture was not returned in kind by these other guys. Hopefully, you can keep the bad feelings in the past and not get too upset about it all over again.

I am lost for words. I don't know how I would have reacted, but the fact that you didn't punch him in the face on the spot speaks volumes about your self-control!

What an awful story. I can only repeat how sad it is that a good person doing a good thing is repaid in this way, which makes it less likely they will repeat the act in the future.

My grandmother, an old Vermonter, used to say, "People are just no d***d good." It's times like this that make me think she was on to something. So sorry this happened to you!