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"French Revolutionary battaliion gun crew" Topic


18 Posts

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1,056 hits since 12 Jan 2018
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Brownand12 Jan 2018 3:19 p.m. PST

I suppose that the crew of the french revolutionary battalions were infantry but does this mean that old regulars wore white and the new volunteer infantry artillery men wore blue?

von Winterfeldt12 Jan 2018 11:14 p.m. PST

no they did wear artillery uniform

Brechtel19813 Jan 2018 7:16 a.m. PST

Source(s)?

Brownand13 Jan 2018 5:11 p.m. PST

Yes please

Brownand16 Jan 2018 12:34 a.m. PST

vW,
if you heva any information where I can find the info please let me now.
I wanted to paint a battalion gun with each of my FR French army battalions. I thought that I have read somewhere,that at least in the volunteer batttalions (the blues) the bat gun crew consisted of infantrymen. So i wondered about the old regular battalion gun crews. And white or blue crew is for those battalions essential.
greetings

von Winterfeldt16 Jan 2018 5:04 a.m. PST

In case I find it, I let you know, in case my memory doesn't fail me, regimental guns of regular line units were manned by gunners of the artillery and not by infantry soldiers, as for the gardes nationales for sure they created garde nationales artillerie, that is gunners to serve the battalion guns – those had an independent fixed organisation in the unit.

Brownand16 Jan 2018 5:46 a.m. PST

Thanks for your time.
So i start painting first with the volunteer bat guns and crew

von Winterfeldt16 Jan 2018 12:24 p.m. PST

thanks to Oliver Schmidt who pointed me in the right direction

"37. L'uniforme des canonniers de la garde nationale est réglé ainsi qu'il suit:
Habit bleu-de-roi, doublure écarlate, parements et collet écarlates, passe-poil blanc, revers blancs, passe-poil écarlate, les pattes des poches de l'habit à trois pointes, un gros bouton sur chaque pointe, quatre gros boutons au-dessous du revers, la manche ouverte et fermée par trois boutons.
Veste bleu-de-roi, passe-poil écarlate, culotte bleu-de-roi ; pour retroussis un canon et une grenade; les boutons comme ceux des gardes nationales."

surprisingly – white lapels!!

for more see

link

another decret gives also white cuffs

link

However this was the first formation of the GNs – later the cuffs became red.

I was quite possitive that they had an identical uniform as for the regular artillery – well maybe later.

Now I have to find out about the line infantry.

42flanker16 Jan 2018 1:35 p.m. PST

Weren't the facings scarlet 'doublure écarlate along with cuffs and collar parements et collet écarlates while the coat tail turnbacks were white revers blancs?

Or have I joined the ranks of the confused?

von Winterfeldt16 Jan 2018 2:19 p.m. PST

well red lining, that would give red turn backs, red or better translation scarlet collar and cuffs, piped white – revers, this I translate as lapels – white – piped scarlet, 4 (instead of the usually three) big buttons beneath the right hand lapel, royal blue waistcoat and breeches, on the turnbacks a cannon and one grenade.

Now when you go to the second link, here the parements (cuffs) are white.

Oliver Schmidt16 Jan 2018 2:24 p.m. PST

as far as I know:

revers = lapel
parement = cuff
collet = collar
doublure = lining (of the part of the coat below the waist, as the turnbacks at that period still were literally turned back, this gives the colour of the turnbacks)
passe-poil = piping

and in the second link (decree of 13 March 1792), v.W. was misreading, it says "parements et revers bleux" = blue cuffs and lapels. So we have the date when the cuffs and lapels of the artillerymen of the Gardes Nationales changed to the more practical blue, piped red. The rest of the uniform remained as it had been ordered on 29 September 1791 (quoted and translated above by v.W.).

von Winterfeldt16 Jan 2018 4:21 p.m. PST

thanks again, misreading again and again, ok, so the gunners look very much alike the regular foot artillery – with the exception of the GN buttons.

42flanker17 Jan 2018 11:21 a.m. PST

Thank you. No longer confused

Brownand17 Jan 2018 12:14 p.m. PST

Thanks for all the effort

Brownand22 Jan 2018 11:05 a.m. PST

In Kronoskaf is mentioned that battalion guns had in wartime a crew of 16 of which 8 were from the artillery, the other from the battalion. If that system still existed in 1790 that would mean half figures in blue, other half in white?

von Winterfeldt23 Jan 2018 7:14 a.m. PST

I don't think this was still done in the French Revolutionary Wars, the guns were handled by artillery gunners, but I will see what I can find on this.

von Winterfeldt27 Jan 2018 4:19 a.m. PST

after a lot of reading, I came to the conclusion that the regular artillerie maned in 1792 the regimental guns, the use of those – at least according to Roquerol : L'Artillerie au Debut des Guerres de la Révolution, Paris 1898 – as regimental artillery gradually disappeared and the GN battalion alone kept the battalion guns as such stuck to each battalion.

However in February 1793 it was again descided, along with the first amalgamtion the regimental artillery again was formally established for all demi brigades.

This is according to Susane : Histoire de Artillerie Francaise, Paris 1874, 2nd edition

Brownand29 Jan 2018 9:57 a.m. PST

Thanks for the information and your efforts.
Will look at the mentioned books.
I suppose that the disappearing of the battalion guns in the 1791/1792 period was maybe caused by the abolition of the militia artillery regiments whot had to deliver half of the crew of the battalion guns?

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