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"The new Saudi Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC)" Topic

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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2018 10:59 a.m. PST

"At the Surface Navy Association's (SNA) 2018 National Symposium currently held near Washington DC, Lockheed Martin is showcasing a new scale model representative of the Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) recently procured by Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA)…"




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Mad Mecha Guy Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Jan 2018 11:30 a.m. PST

Still an under armed ship. Been better buying some more Patrol boats.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2018 11:57 a.m. PST

Why Under Armed Ship?


Generalstoner49 Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2018 4:14 p.m. PST

This "stretch" version of the LCS is definitely better armed but still not a scary ship. The 8 cell VLS will like be loaded with ESSM for anti-armor with maybe a small number of ASROC scattered in the cells as well.

That 57mm pop gun is barely enough to shoot down a seagull though. Finally the ship is not survivable. We knew this but perhaps in the confines of the gulf the ship will do a little better.

Sudwind Inactive Member12 Jan 2018 4:15 p.m. PST

Under-armed? 8 Harpoon missiles, 8 x MK41 VLS cells, 57mm gun, 2 x20mm gun, 2 x 50 caliber MG, SeaRAM system, helicopter….that is a lot of power on a small ship. Considering the Saudi's likely opponents at sea, this is a highly capable ship. It shows us what the Freedom Class LCS could be ….

Is it meant to join NATO forces in the North Atlantic? no….

But in the Persian Gulf, this is a potent platform, especially with friendly air cover at hand.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2018 9:56 a.m. PST

Agree with Sudwind!!


Lion in the Stars14 Jan 2018 4:26 a.m. PST

LCS ain't small, they're 378ft long! That's the same size as an FFG7, with less than half the original armament (and Perry-class FFGs were never noted for being well-armed).

That VLS is basically going to be full of Sea Sparrow quad-packs, and *might* have 2-4 ASROCs in it.

john snelling14 Jan 2018 9:59 a.m. PST

I agree with Sudwind also. OSCS(SW) ret 1974-2003. Nice looking ship.

Walking Sailor14 Jan 2018 10:14 a.m. PST

Littoral combat requires quick reflexes.
Air superiority is dependent on reaction time, the ship must be capable of defending itself when operating without a CAP.
Against manned aircraft of likely opponents it probably is.
Against sea skimmers or swarm boats the 57 will not depress, the manned .50cal's are dependent on the gunner's skill, and the CIWS (the NARWAL 20's) fields of fire are blocked fore and aft.

Waco Joe14 Jan 2018 12:17 p.m. PST

Well hopefully the gunner in the Seahawk is a good shot. grin

emckinney14 Jan 2018 12:38 p.m. PST

Narwhals don't look blocked to the back.

Article says this appears not to be stretched.

I tend to believe that there are few problems that can't be solved with sufficient application of high explosives, so I like large-caliber shells. However, the Bofors 57mm seems to be a very good gun and may be much more appropriate for environment. The higher rate of fire against boats (missile or small), helicopters, drones, and even missiles is quite useful, and the ballistics seems to be excellent. Whatever the depression limits, it's likely that you'll be relying on proximity fusing against missiles, so you're likely to want to fire above the missiles instead of into them, yo attempt to reduce sea surface effects. Against boats, the 57mm shells are still large enough for mission kills. I sure wouldn't want to be in a small boat packed with guns, ammo, fuel, missiles, or whatever with even one of those coming in … Wonder if there's an incendiary round that you can sub in on the fly?

Lion in the Stars16 Jan 2018 1:03 p.m. PST

For swarm attacks (whether missiles or small boats), the 57mm is supposed to throw a greater weight of shells per minute than anything short of a 5" automatic. But that's still too small for shooting at anything larger than a FAC/torpedo boat.

Sadly, the 5"/54 Mk45 is about twice the weight of the 57mm, which would probably do horrible things to the seakeeping of that hull (too much weight up front, probably make the bow draw another foot of water or so, and therefore making a rather wet bow and damaging everything topside from wave pounding).

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