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"Another Terror Attack Against Christians In Egypt" Topic

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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2017 12:47 p.m. PST

"Twelve people have died in twin attacks on Coptic Christians in the Helwan area south of Cairo, officials say.

Ten people died when gunmen tried to storm a church south of Cairo, but were intercepted by police.

About an hour later, a Coptic-owned shop in the same area was attacked, leaving two dead.

More than 100 Christians have been killed in Egypt in the past year – most attacks claimed by the local branch of the so-called Islamic State group.

Security forces have put checkpoints in place around the capital in response to the attacks…"
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USAFpilot29 Dec 2017 7:23 p.m. PST

Those poor Egyptian Christians. It seems like I'm always hearing about them being killed.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP31 Dec 2017 11:01 p.m. PST

Before ISIS, the Ikhwan (Muslim Brotherhood) was doing most of the cleansing of Christians in Egypt, in Syria, in Iraq …


Rakkasan01 Jan 2018 6:24 a.m. PST

The Brotherhood in Egypt either conducted or ignored attacks against Christians. There is no evidence that the Brotherhood organizations in Iraq, Syria, or elsewhere advocated or undertook violence against Christians.

zoneofcontrol Inactive Member01 Jan 2018 9:34 a.m. PST

"The Brotherhood in Egypt either conducted or ignored attacks against Christians."

I believe Rakkasan's statement is correct.

Ruchel01 Jan 2018 4:44 p.m. PST

On November 24th, 300 true Muslims were killed in a terrorist attack, in a Sufi mosque, in Sinai. Do you know anything about that slaughter? Did you know that news?

So ISIS criminals (fake Muslims) kill Muslims and Christians, and Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, and everyone who do not agree with their degenerate and heretic ideas.

ISIS has many different targets, not only Christians. Furthermore, most victims are true Muslims (Sunni, Shia, and others).

Regarding Muslim Brotherhood, even although their members are not very educated, spiritually speaking, their main aim is not violence and terrorism. I dislike many of their procedures and religious attitudes, but we have to take into consideration that they were chased and repressed by Egyptians dictators (Nasser, Sadat and, mainly, by Mubarak) for decades. And it should be noted that it is considered that the Egyptian Christian community supported those dictatorships (mainly Mubarak's dictatorship). So, logically, there is not a good relationship between the Brotherhood and the Egyptian Christian community.

We can understand their enmity, but killing civilians cannot be justified by any ideology or organisation. And the same can be applied to the criminal bombings carried out by the neo-colonialist powers (Western countries and Russia, and their respective allies).

zoneofcontrol Inactive Member01 Jan 2018 9:02 p.m. PST

Thanks for rehashing your belief system once again. I am another year older and another year closer to my maker, so it is always nice to get a refresher course.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP02 Jan 2018 12:29 a.m. PST

Ruchel: "Regarding Muslim Brotherhood, even although their members are not very educated, spiritually speaking, their main aim is not violence and terrorism"

News to me. Every time I speak to one they seem to be ok with a lot of the civilian killings, at the hand of their brethren or by others, as long as the victims aren't Muslims.

They sure do a lot of fundraising for arming Al Qaeda and Hamas. And the ones in Egypt don't seem to need much of an excuse to coordinate the torching of Coptic and other Christian places of worship, or set bombs on Christian holidays.

Isn't this their motto?

"'Allah is our objective; the Prophet is our leader; the Quran is our law; Jihad is our way; dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

Lots of them are doctors, professors in Islamic studies and scholars in other fields too, by the way. They were the ones who started that salafi movement. They just happen to make use of taqqya (permissible deceit for infiltration) and "political Islam" a little bit better than most other Salafis and Wahhabists, even wearing Western suits instead of traditional garb when living in non-Muslim countries. They and their organizations (like CAIR, which always rushes in to defend people charged with terrorism in the West) do more to damage the public image of Muslims than most. They make things very difficult for our peace loving Muslim citizens who want to assimilate and to be embraced by their non-Muslim neighbors in the West.

At least ISIS doesn't bother hiding their goals of Jihad and a Caliphate.

PS. Remember these obstruction of justice flyers, when our nation needed tips and solid leads the most?


Gwydion02 Jan 2018 4:27 a.m. PST

Lots of them are doctors, professors in Islamic studies and scholars in other fields too, by the way. They were the ones who started that salafi movement.

Just a point of fact

Salafism started in the (our) 18th century – Muslim Brotherhood started 1928.

So unless they invented time travel… grin

Carry on…

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP02 Jan 2018 7:14 a.m. PST


Perhaps I should have said "that specific Salafi movement". They aren't a monolithic fundamentalist group. There are more than one variant, with some more conservative than others*, with al-Ikhwan al-Muslimin being a more political form.

"Today, a profusion of self-proclaimed Salafi groups exist, each accusing the others of deviating from ‘true' Salafism."

Also, while Wahhabists are Salafists, not all Salafists are Wahhabists.

* Similar to the way the Amish, Mennonites and others have their variants, with some rejecting a few of the more traditional practices. Yet they are all more conservative than the majority of Christians.

USAFpilot02 Jan 2018 10:22 a.m. PST

That flyer by CAIR is disgusting. "..your employer…won't give you time to pray". Guess what, your employer doesn't give a crap about your religion or anyone else's. It's a business trying to make money.

We are a free country. All legal immigrants are welcome. Be free to practice whatever religion you want want on your own time.

Ruchel02 Jan 2018 4:51 p.m. PST

The main aims of Muslim Brotherhood, from its beginnings, were those related to social assistance, charity, medical care, pensions, and so on, everything in the framework of the Islamic social doctrine. Evidently, those actions included the use of certain political procedures as means to achieve social purposes.

But after decades of repression and censorship (by dictators supported by Western countries and some Christian groups), some members have become more radical and fanatical, and many religious precepts have been distorted. Their leaders are not very clever (Mursi's decisions were stupid and naive as well). The spiritual and intellectual contents have declined nowadays due to the general climate of violence (ISIS, Salafist/Wahhabist influence and a new despicable and cruel dictator, Al-Sisi).

No political group, Brotherhood included, has any chance against the absolute economic and political control established by the Egyptian Army and some economic elites. The consequences are evident: repression and widespread corruption, and all that mess supported by Western countries.

What is the problem with the motto? It is perfectly adequate and correct from a religious point of view.
If you translate it to a Christian perspective: "God is our objective. Jesus Christ/the Apostles/the Saints are our leaders. Moses' and Jesus' Commandments are our law. Self-discipline (inner fight) is our way. Dying in the way of God is our highest hope (in the meaning of following the spiritual path until the end of life).
This is the real meaning. But you have to study the correct concepts of Allah, the Prophet, the Quran, Jihad, the way of Allah, and many other, from an authentic Islamic source, avoiding typical Western misconceptions and misunderstandings. You need to study hard if you want to understand other religions and civilizations, avoiding prejudices and intellectual laziness.

Nevertheless, nothing and none can justify the killing of defenceless civilians (Christians, Muslims, or whatever people). I condemn any kind of criminal attack carried out or supported by any group (ISIS, certain Brotherhood members, Western governments, etc.).

By the way, regarding those pamphlets, it is evident that every organization cares for its interests, using every mean at its disposal. These procedures may dislike us, but Western countries do the same thing, or worse. For example, USA and other Western countries have used every mean to defend their own interests: invading other countries, bombing other countries, supporting despicable dictators, provoking coups, plundering natural and economic resources, and so on, everything done "in the name of democracy and freedom", and in the name of the "American way of life". In fact, it is despicable hypocrisy.

Many ideas from Salafist/Wahhabist doctrine are clearly heretical. They are not admitted by the four Islamic schools of thought (in Sunni Islam). In fact, Salafism/Wahhabism defies continuously the authority of those true schools. But there is no Sunni Islam outside those schools. So if Salafism/Wahhabism fights against those four schools, Salafism/Wahhabism is heretical, and it is not Islam.
By the way, the heretical and despicable Salafism/Wahhabism is supported by the despicable Saudi monarchy. And this monarchy is supported by the USA and the president Trump. Economic interests are above religions, moral and people.

Again, most victims are Muslims, but nobody takes into account this fact. I repeat it: more than 300 true Muslims were killed in a massive slaughter, in one day only, on 24th November. But Muslim people are second class, or non-existent people.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP02 Jan 2018 5:07 p.m. PST

Lol. So I guess it's true then, "each (group) accusing the others of deviating from ‘true' Salafism."

It happens in all religions, though some religions are willing to admit the dangers of that delusion more than others.

As for Jihad being mainly an inner struggle, give me a break. Nice try. Some Dimmis will fall for it but not all. Enough with the Taqqiya.

Well, at least some imams are more direct and less apologetic, and openly admit what is really meant by Jihad. At least they're honest about their hate and objectives. And the actions of most make it clear what Jihad really means to them.


Ruchel02 Jan 2018 6:11 p.m. PST

Again, if someone wants to talk correctly about these matters (Islamic religious concepts) it is necessary to study hard and from the authentic sources.

The concept of Jihad is the typical example of Western misconception and misunderstanding. And yes, Jihad is mainly an inner struggle. The "greater Jihad" is indeed an inner struggle in a way of self-knowledge and self-growing. This is the main meaning, whether you like or not.
The "lesser Jihad" is only a limited defensive war. And it is just a secondary meaning.
If some imams admit other meanings, they are wrong due to ignorance or manipulation. By the way, Imams are not religious or doctrinal authorities. They are not priests in a Christian meaning. They only lead communal prayer. The real religious and doctrinal Islamic authorities are the spiritual sheikhs and Ulamas, and they cannot oppose the Quran, the hadiths and the four schools of thought.

Again, Salafism/Wahhabism is a modern ideology, not an original Islamic school of thought. The four original schools of thought (Sunni Islam) are the original and authentic Sunni Islam. Salafism/Wahhabism is a relatively recent heretical deviation. It is easy to understand.

I do not want to repeat my arguments anymore. I have discussed deeply these matters previously in other topics. This forum is not devoted to religious matters, and in any case I think you need to possess a certain degree of knowledge about these matters in order to discuss in greater depth.

I repeat it ad nauseam: most victims are true Muslims (again, 300 people killed in one day), but few people in Western countries are aware of facts like that. Or Muslim people are considered second class (or non-existent), or it is only a example of Islamophobia.

coopman02 Jan 2018 6:42 p.m. PST

My daughter has some Muslim friends. She says that they shudder and pray that the new attack (that they just heard about on the news) was not carried out by anyone who is Islamic. They are fearful of revenge attacks against others of their belief.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP02 Jan 2018 7:48 p.m. PST

I just hope that at least a tiny portion of their prayer is for the victims and their families, and not just their fellow believers.

For the cycle to end, all sides need to stop seeing the others as "second class (or non-existent)."


coopman02 Jan 2018 8:36 p.m. PST

I'm sure that they do that, Dan. They seem to be very nice people, by all indications. They despise ISIS and the hatred that they display in the name of Islam.

USAFpilot03 Jan 2018 6:28 p.m. PST

By the way, regarding that pamphlet by CAIR. Maybe citizens living is this country, enjoying all the freedoms and benefits guaranteed by our constitution should be sending a different message. Maybe if they really despised ISIS, as they say, they would send out pamphlets advocating cooperation with the FBI instead of trying to hinder them. Maybe CAIR should go on the offensive and be leading the charge to call out what they see as the radical and violent perversions of their religion; instead of bashing the very government which protects their freedoms. CAIR seems more upset over someones feelings getting hurt than someone taking a knife and cutting off someones head.

zoneofcontrol Inactive Member03 Jan 2018 9:08 p.m. PST

The more I come here, the more I learn things. I now realize that James Alex Fields, Jr. who drove his car into a crowd of protesters in Charlottesville, is not an American. There are laws against this sort of thing and Americans just don't do that sort of thing. So it is obvious that everyone else in Charlottesville that day was and is an American. Just not Mr. Fields.

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