"Is the "Holdo Maneuver" a game changer?" Topic

I don't play space combat games and don't think this affects Star Wars Armada (which doesn't address hyperspace at all), but it's still interesting for the science geeks:

link

Isn't that a Holdo-ver from B5? Didn't someone do something like that on that show?

Ha! So now kamikaze is suddenly cool and heroic to more people? :)

Dan

"Science geeks"?
Ummmmm….. Hyperspace? That's just pretend handwavium, so we can pretend it's SCIENCE fiction and not fantasy.
Before you start harrumphing me off the planet, show me a real genuine working model of hyperspace drive, and maybe I'll listen. But until then, it's magic.

But until then, it's magic.

Well, there's "theoretical" science which scientists and physicists discuss all the time as if it's "real."

But your point is taken. Touché.

WARNING: If you think about Star Wars too long, none of it makes sense, and it looses its fun. This is true with the original movie, the original trilogy, and all subsequent material.

Don't forget Blast Door Logic -- Why are some blast doors lightning fast and others slow? Don't they serve the same purpose. Even on the Death Star in first movie. They are plot sensitive -- either to allow the story to continue, add drama, a little shock and awe. Whatever works best.

So if FTL into another ship breaks the WWI or WWII analogy and ruins the fun -- then FTL suicides doesn't work in your game. Full Stop.

In the context of the Star Wars setting, I don't think so:

First of all, using whole capital ships as anti-ship missiles would get pretty expensive, fast. Unlike Star Trek, Star Wars is not a post-economic setting and scarcity is still an issue.

On the other hand, many fighters have smaller and likely less costly hyper drives. Rather than slamming a light-speed capital ship into a target, you could throw many smaller hyper drive missiles at your opponent in hopes of achieving a similar effect.

Of course, it should be noted that interdictor field generators that can keep a ship from jumping to light-speed exist in the SW universe. I wouldn't be surprised that in the next films the First Order started requiring Interdictor ships to support all fleet operations.

Of course, that assuming whoever is writing the current Star Wars films can think that far.

I might be mis-remembering this but didn't Han Solo jump to lightspeed from inside a ship or land at lightspeed inside a ship in the Force Awakens?

I enjoyed both films and don't think either suffered from including such stunts.

This is one of those "…just repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax…" moments, isn't it?

Nah, it's a "have another and relax" moment

Too many things in that whole "space battle" broke my suspension for disbelief.

In their defense the maneuver had a specific purpose in a specific scenario, so no game changer. BUT…with drones? Maybe. If you jump TO light speed, shouldn't your mass increase during that time increment? Ah, there's the Mass Effect device that prevents it. Too much thinking leads to too little beer.

This is predicated in not having seen the movie. Yet.
If you plan to use it in every single battle, you will have all your pilots wondering who drew the short straw.
Plus, you will soon run out of ships. To become a common tactic, you have to have a culture that sees suicide as a valid tactic.

As much as a game changer as warp speed limits in Star Trek

Just another reason I quit watching Star Wars movies. A director who wants to be edgy, to push the characters in ways unfitting to the canon, just because he can. Nope. No money for him. no movie money, no toy money, jack squat from my hand toward his.

The only thing worse than all the remake artistes who can't have an original thought to save their @[&*()!! is that species of idiot film-maker who has to re-make the characters into freakish distortions of themselves.

Winston Smith…

In RotJ the "tuna" cargo ships were loaded with explosives and were meant to ram SDs. So this maneuver should have been perfect for that battle with those ships. But it didn't happen then.

This is no more of a problem than ship ramming at STL speeds or the existence of fighter sized craft capable of FTL speeds.

Pretty much any mass traveling at relativistic speeds would pack a devastating amount of energy and any capitol sized ship ramming another one would also be devastating.

The real question is given the existence of droids and small FTL engines, why aren't all space battles fought with relativistic drones? Answer: It doesn't lend itself to interesting story lines.

If you think about it too much most of Star Wars and most of the other sci-fi franchises don't make sense. You have to shut off the analytical part of your brain and just enjoy the storytelling.

You have to shut off *all* of your brain for this movie. What a muddled up mess.
At least we won't have to suffer Laura Dern's overstiff acting and pompous speechifying in the next one, if they even make it.

…we won't have to suffer Laura Dern's…

Now, now, she could 'sparkle' like others will, no spoilers intended.

Didn't have to shut off ALL brain ALL movie, but the FTL psuedo-ram did initiate a mental 'scram', but left me capable of enjoying much, though admittedly not all, the rest.

Doug

The whole fake countdown timer of running out of fuel got on my nerves. And why can only the lead ship track through hyperspace? And where the did that planet suddenly come from? And it just happened to have an old rebel base on it? Who the is in charge of navigation? They didn't realize it was there when they jumped? And why not tell everyone about the plan? Just dumb ploys to trick the audience. Ergh.

I am so glad Durn bites the dust. She was an annoying disposable character, like nearly everyone in the film.

The film is a mess of silly tricks. Doing the opposite is not creativity, Still, I liked it more than Force Awakens, which is faint praise.

Why can't an Admiral dress like an Admiral, instead of like a socialite wearing the latest designer gown with shoulders cut out? Even and especially, Bad Guy Admirals dress the part.
And it seemed like she was just staying behind to "go down with the ship", than having a master plan. It was a last minute brain flash.

And why can only the lead ship track through hyperspace?

They say in the movie that all the ships can track through hyperspace, just the lead one is the ship doing it. They were going to disrupt the track to give a window of escape

And where the Bleeped text did that planet suddenly come from? And it just happened to have an old rebel base on it?

In Empire where did Cloud City come from? And it just happened to have Han's old buddy running it? They travelled there at sublight don't forget.

Who the Bleeped text is in charge of navigation? They didn't realize it was there when they jumped? And why not tell everyone about the plan?

Maybe they thought there was a mole aboard? As it was Po screwed it up and got hundreds of people killed.

Why can't an Admiral dress like an Admiral, instead of like a socialite wearing the latest designer gown with shoulders cut out? Even and especially, Bad Guy Admirals dress the part.

Obviously trying to emulate Mon Mothma

I might be mis-remembering this but didn't Han Solo jump to lightspeed from inside a ship or land at lightspeed inside a ship in the Force Awakens?

I enjoyed both films and don't think either suffered from including such stunts.

He didn't land at lightspeed, he circumvented a planetary shield at lightspeed which makes the whole stolen shuttle plan of Return of the Jedi pretty irrelevant.

JJ Abrams only way to make movies is to copy old movies and make them super extreme. Instead of a Death Star that destroys nearby worlds, they built Death Planets that consume suns, shoot through hyperspace and destroy multiple planets in a single shot.

Or as in Star Trek, everyone's genius at their job instead of just pretty good/adequate. And now they don't just teleport from a ship to a planet, but from a planet to a ship at warp or even further distances.

Sci-fi movies with plot holes and technology that behaves inconsistently? Inconceivable!

You don't have to think about most SF franchises for too long before you run into the whole "if you can aim a cee-fractional asteroid at a planet from outside the planetary system, space battles are kind of irrelevant" problem.

Aside from The Expanse and The Cold Equations, I don't know many space SF properties that aren't outright fantasy.

Even the expanse has magic asteroid moving with no visible means of propulsion technology that is "so advanced we can't comprehend how it works".

Take a fantasy story and replace magic with "advanced" technology and you have sci-fi.