"WWII Navy Command and Control" Topic

Just finished a couple books on the Naval Battles off Guadalcanal. So are there any rules that can create the situation that happen there. Ships turning by division instead of line or each ship reversing course, or mix within a division. Or not turning at all. Single destroyers making attacks with no one following, or just wandering off on their own against orders. Friendly fire. Ships making turn the wrong way and end up either in the way or getting themselves masked.
The night battle of 1942 were a complete mess, but most rules, everyone acts as they are told. No check fire on enemy or friendly fire.

A double blind game with each player commanding 1 ship? Don't reveal targets to other commanders if they aren't in communication?

I was thinking activation roll, pips or special event card type system. Maybe if you don't use a pip, you have to roll to see if it follows orders.

In my experience, the best way to generate chaos on the table is to enlist multiple players. Gamers are absolutely abysmal at coordination and following orders, and the mess described in the OP could describe most multi-player naval games I've run or played in – including daylight actions. The more players, the more chaos. I'd offer to bring a group over to help demonstrate, but I live on the wrong coast. :-)

But since you're looking for actual rules:

The original General Quarters had friendly fire rules for night actions. I was never happy with them.

I wrote some more sophisticated C3 house rules for General Quarters which essentially randomize moves and shots made while out of formation. These rules complicate a game that is fun at least partly because it's not complicated, so remain untested.

The newer versions of General Quarters (GQ3 and Fleet Action Imminent) contain more sophisticated rules to simulate spotting and friendly fire problems at night. I don't believe there are any rules to randomize movement in ways that cause chaos, though.

Sea Wars Fleet Actions by A & A Game Engineering has a lot of C3 rules, including spotting and movement hassles which get worse in low visibility. I don't know if they can generate anything as chaotic as you describe (I only played them once and never revisited them), but they should provide *some* C3 limitations.

On a more general note, rules which force players into chaos necessarily take control away from the player, and if carried too far the players starts to feel more like an observer of brownian motion than a commander. It is very, very hard to carry off C3 in a naval game in a way that is satisfactory to naval gamers, so it just isn't attempted much.

- Ix

In a recent GQ3 game at the club, one of our players managed to torpedo and sink one of his own destroyers, much to all the other players amusement.

Or, one your commanders has another event in 15 minutes and wants to end the game in a blaze.

I second Sea Wars. Odd things will happen. The only caveat is that it is more a grand tactical set of rules where the player is the fleet commander and the units you move about are squadrons composed of multiple ships. There can be single ship squadrons though so any size action can be covered. Wonderful game/simulation.

Bob

Have finally dusted off my small unit action rules " Release the Hounds" and began playtesting them again this weekend. Will post an AAR soon. ) So the answer is "yes" to all of the above though friendly fire is very very rare and only occurs in limited visibility conditions. That part wasn't hard to figure out. It is tied to the C2 skill of the navy in quesiton. What has been challenging is getting the flow of play smooth and combat results realistically attritional normally without bogging down the game. Oh, and I want no hull boxes and the like; no bookkeeping. Will see if I succeed.

Joe

thanks all

I tried to add some rules for night fighting a recent WW2 Guadalcanal game using Naval Thunder to try and simulate the confusion. All ships had to make command rolls to do anything, with various modifications.

I used the recommendations from this article on night fighting for GQ2: PDF link

Here are the rules we used:

Night Fighting Rules (trial)
1. Set night visibility range (20"); for Japanese roll a 1d10 and add that to visibility range

2. Determine if radars start switched on at beginning of game, make a command roll to use

3. Assign each ship a command rating. Suggested command levels are 8 for Japanese and 6 or 7 for American (on a D10) at night – set the initial command rating then roll for variable command, this might mean American ships having a command of 5!

4. All ships write orders three turns in advance prior to game start, all ships must sail in formation with designated Squadron Commander (SC)

5. All ships continue to write orders so they have three turns in advance written until enemy sighted and new orders issued by SC.

6. When a ship is first sighted make a command roll to identify it as an enemy, then make another command roll to pass the message to SC. SC makes a command roll to receive message

7. For radar detection make a command roll to believe the sighting, and similar rolls to pass to SC and for SC to receive message

8. Ships can only change orders once enemy has been sighted and SC ship gives an order to change orders including opening fire.

9. SC makes a command roll to change orders, and ships in squadron make command rolls to receive order

10. Ships can change orders the next turn following a sighting and if command rolls made

11. Ships can open fire following receipt of a command order from SC.

12. Individual ships in a squadron can attempt to operate independent after sighting an enemy but suffer a minus 2 or 3 to such a roll

13. Once an engagement starts, ship can only fire at a given target after they have made a command roll, they must make a new command roll to change target

14. Ships can fire star shells out to medium range, roll to hit with no modifications. If miss, roll for deviation. Ships hit with a star shell or within 4" are classed as illuminated or silhouetted and can be seen out to 60"

15. Searchlights can be used to illuminate a ship out to 30"

16. Ships using searchlights or firing with 6" guns or larger are classed as visible for that turn but not illuminated

17. Any ship with a fire is classed as illuminated

18. Illuminated or silhouetted ships are -1 to hit

19.Ships on fire can attract enemy and friendly fire, all ships must make a command roll (with a -1) NOT to fire on the burning ship.

20. If a ship is no longer in formation, then make a command roll to stay in the battle at a +1

Each side had two heavy cruisers and 2 destroyers. These rules worked reasonable well though it was quite confusing. Both sides failed command rolls to open fire or change orders (though the American's rolled well on the night). Two ships caught fire and suffered friendly fire. Not a single torpedo hit despite some being fired at point blank range (just bad dice rolling). Formations quickly broke up with ships retiring and the engagement came to an end fairly quickly as ships moved out of visibility range. No clear winner, Americans lost a heavy cruiser and two badly damaged destroyers, the Japanese lost two destroyers with both cruisers with moderate damage.

Thanks for the link Captain.