"Rate of fire of Krupp C64 and C67 field guns" Topic

Any idea where I can find the info on the RoF of the above mentioned Krupp guns? So far all i've found are superlatives like "blistering", "superior" etc. Alot of it looks as if they are copying the same wikipedia entry. I did find a French source that stated the RoF of the La Hitte 4pdr being 2.5 rnds. a minute. Thanks.

I have two articles on Prussian artillery by Martin Tomczak that were published in "Wargames Illustrated" in 1988. Both articles give mush detail about the weapons, organization, and tactics of the 1870 Prussian artillery, except for any rates of fire.

The only rate of fire related paragraph is:

Conserving ammunition is an important principle that must be adhered to. The guns permit very rapid firing, however good shooting requires a calm crew and precise aiming. At shorter ranges firing can be faster, since conditions are better for it. The urgency or importance of a task might demand a higher rate of fire. When firing at fixed objects, if no real success is visible or it is done at long range, a slow rate is to be maintained.

Since the guns, even though breech loaders, used a separate shell and bagged charge, they couldn't approach the rate of fire of a more "modern" gun with a fixed round such as the French 75.

Sorry I couldn't help more.

Jim

They also do not have recoil absorption systems, so must be relayed after every round. Probably about the same RoF as the LaHitte, but virtually every round should take the rifling, unlike the maybe 75% rate (on a good day) with the French muzzle loaders.

I thought, though I could be mistaken, that the Krupps shells had metallic cases rather than separate bags and shells.

The Krupp did not have a metalic cartridge and the weapon lacked a firing pin. They also used black powder propellant so most likely needed to be swabbed between every round to prevent premature ignition. The Germans did not win the artillery fight by rate of fire, but rather by an aggressive doctine.

The German artillery had two significant advantages over the French: they had 24 guns to the division whereas the French had 12; the Germans had an effective impact fuse whereas the French had a timed fuse with only two narrow range bands. So division to division the Germans could deliver twice as many shells in a salvo and by and large they all had effect when they hit, while the French shells only had effect if the range bracket was correct.

They also had a substantial amount of Corps artillery for every two divisions, while the Trench (apart from the Guard) only had Corps Artillery for every three or four divisions. Add to this the Prussian tendency to deploy artillery early as a result of their experience in 1866, and the fact that the French had replaced a Battery in every division with a mitrailleuse battery, and the Prussians overwhelmed the French by sheer volume of fire.

Mollinary

I even read that theoretical rates for the simpler French breach loaders was higher.
As said it is irrelevant except at very short ranges when in a hurry.

Their killing thing was the good contact fuses, noted above efficiency at range finding, doctrine, and the ridiculous ( till autumn when new ones arrived which changed a bit the game) Fr saving on the fuses which lead to using innacurate attempts at ricochet fire++.

'The Krupp did not have a metallic cartridge'
I'm not sure what you mean here; the shell was cast iron sheathed with a thin film of lead, bleimantel from memory but Mollinary can correct me. The lead filled the rifling, the segmented cast iron shell exploded on contact. The Austrians used a cast iron shell sheathed in a 1:1 zinc/tin alloy but of course the 'Bodenzug System Lenke M1863' guns were based on the French 'La Hitte' system and so were muzzle loading. The Austrians, if Wawro is to be believed are documented as being able to fire at a rate of one round per minute for five hours. One day I will check that reference. I would be very surprised if the 'La Hitte' was capable of anything over one round per minute. Loading a rifled cannon requires more care with the shell, they have to be turned with the rifling if they are going to be properly seated, also the potential for premature explosion is greater when loading so swabbing has to be more thorough, it would also have to be relaid each time it was fired.Prussian doctrine post 1866 stressed the importance of accuracy over rapidity of fire, so the crews were shooting in a measured fashion, also the gun had to be relaid after every shot, no mechanism to absorb recoil. Fewer rounds, every one on target … in theory.

Ramming

I think the term "metallic Cartridge" used above is referring to the propellant being contained in a metallic cartridge often with the projectile attached to the cartridge.

Hence projectile and propellant loaded as one [as a fixed round] rather than loading projectile and propellant separately.