"In 1950, the Puerto Rican National Guard Bombarded" Topic

… a Pro-Independence Uprising.

"In November 2017, more than a month after Hurricane Maria struck Puerto Rico, territory residents continue to die due to lack of access to electricity and running water.

The troubled recovery effort highlights questions over U.S. sovereignty over the island. Puerto Ricans are American citizens, and indeed a majority of Puerto Ricans — five million — live on the U.S. mainland.

However, the 3.4 million residing on the archipelago cannot vote for president, do not pay federal taxes are required by law to import all goods from the United States at high prices and do not have any voting representation in Congress…"
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Amicalement
Armand

Damn terrorists.

Same goes for Marxist separatists like FALN (and their successors the Macheteros) who, between 1974 and 1983 set off more than 120 bombs, killing and maiming civilians.

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It's funny how so many who today want Puerto Rico to be independent are second or third generation, born and raised on the mainland, and have never lived on the island.

Dan

What's even funnier is some guy from Texas telling Puerto Ricans whether they should be independent or not.

Pan Marek

You mean a Puertorican, born and raised on the island, who just happens to be currently living in Texas?

And most of my family is still on the island – never left in fact – and they also called these guys terrorists and scum.

So why is that funny again?

Dan
PS. Ever wonder why the Marxist Puertorican Independent Party for decades has never gotten more than 5 or 7% of votes (usually much less) on any political elections? They have always been loud, that's all, specially with non-native Puertoricans who have never ever lived or worked on the island.

Well … all I know … if the US Gov't with help of NGOs don't do anything. The island will be a bigger mess than it was before the storms. It was bankrupt, IIRC …

So yeah if that is what the "pro-independence" types want … well OK. They can fix it …

Like Fidel "fixed" Cuba …

I stand corrected- up to a point.
Its your last sentence that I have the most concerns
about. Got any proof to back it up?

My Grandmother (Mom's Mom) was a hardcore socialist nut in her youth, and she followed Albizu Campos for a while, even though in his earlier days he had been a big admirer of Mussolini's and his black shirts. Campos was the head of the Puerto Rican Nationalist Party that conducted the attacks in the 50s, by the way. His flag was a white Potenzada/Templar cross on a black background.

But by then she had developed a greater admiration for Luis Munoz Marin*, saying he was more "stable" than Campos. She said Campos was too volatile and militant.

I guess that, back then in the 40s and 50s, the Puerto Rican Independence Movement (MPI) was a mixed bag of anti-Americans. But then the Puerto Rican Socialist Party (PSP/PIP) decided to purge the movement of all Nationalists. In the 60s and 70s they targeted any remaining Centrists in their ranks who did not share in their Marxist ideals. They even purged themselves of all the Christian Socialists in their ranks. They sacrificed the potential strength of a coalition in favor of a more militant and ideologically "pure" Marxist base, today's PIP. And yes, they sought and received Castro's blessing back then.

Interestingly enough, though the PSP/PIP purged itself of all Albizu Campos Nationalist followers, when it's convenient for them, they like to lump Campo's speeches and actions along with theirs. Talk about appropriation and re-writing of history!

Dan
* Until the day she died, at age "86" (during her last 11years of life she said she was 86, that she had chosen to stop aging), she almost worshiped Munoz Marin, even though her personal views later in life were still sometimes left of center.

Every time the Puerto Ricans ask for a referendum for independance they are given it, and it fails. The majority seem to like their status (can't vote but don't pay taxes).

Pan Marek

"What's even funnier is some guy from Texas telling Puerto Ricans whether they should be independent or not."

"I stand corrected- up to a point."

To a point? Or completely? So you still think it's funny that I should have an opinion on the matter, even though my current residence is in Texas?

Dan

Puerto Rico had a fine economy until 1996

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Now they are basically a welfare state with an underground economy that avoids paying taxes. The best and brightest are leaving for the US mainland making recovery even more difficult.

With declining tax revenues Puerto Rico did what all Western countries are doing – borrow money. Their bond rating dropped which meant the interest paid on bonds increased (bigger risk).

However, this signalled to Wall Street a safe place to get larger returns on triple tax-exempt bonds. Why safe? Because Wall Street thinks that Puerto Rico will be bailed out and bondholders are among the first to get paid back. Unfortunately, this increased Puerto Ricos debt into a dwindling spiral where the debt is unsustainable and expenses are larger than income. The people of Puerto Rico deserve better.

The moral of the story:
"The government giveth and the government taketh away. Blessed be the government"

Wolfhag

That and the fact that a LOT of money tends to disappear when handed over to whichever officials are in power in PR. It's almost as bad as giving money to New Orleans. :)

That's why accountability measures have gotten much stricter in the last decade or so. They have to show how that money is being spent.

Getting back to the subject, the reasons and players involved in the separatist movement of the Nationalist Party of the 40s and 50s are all completely different from those that came later from the Marxist groups (FALN, Macheteros, PRI militants etc.). And those also differ from most of the "movement" today. For those on the island, actual native Puerto Ricans, separatist talk today is mostly about leverage for getting more federal money. And local media owned by the players keeps blowing it all out of proportion.

Dan
PS. With no federal income tax and with so many of the military installations gone from the island (including Vieques) , we have become like an aging and nagging concubine who refuses to "put out", even though the husband still has 50 wives who are relatively happy and willing to "play".

Correction:

The black flag of the Nationalist Party responsible for the attacks in the 40s and 50s had the Jerusalem (Potenzada) Cross, not the Templar Cross.

It was always known to be a Christian Nationalist Party, and focused mainly on getting Catholics on board, but nowadays the Marxists claim it wasn't. Weird, huh, the Marxists "defending" today the symbols of those whom they purged from the coalition Independence Movement for being such "ultra-Nationalists" and "fascists" (and who happened to have been the original members of the MPI)? :)

The older generation still remembers what it is they followed and why:

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Mind-boggling, right? My people never fail to amaze me. Lol.

Dan
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Cacique-

After all your other posts, I do stand completely corrected.