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"Sicilian grenadiers anyone have info?" Topic


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587 hits since 15 Nov 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2017 3:11 p.m. PST

A custoner has an embarkment log sheet. Names a sicilian grenadier unit. Also 47 regt. Anyone heard of them. Document was sold as Napoleonic or war 1812.

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2017 3:11 p.m. PST

A custoner has an embarkment log sheet. Names a sicilian grenadier unit. Also 47 regt. Anyone heard of them. Document was sold as Napoleonic or war 1812.

Le Breton15 Nov 2017 4:46 p.m. PST

A photo of the document would help. If the Sicilians and the "47 regt." were on the same side ….

It would have to be the British 47th Lancashire Regiment of Foot. 2nd Battalion 47th Foot served in the Mediterranean at Gibralter from October 1809 until landing at Tarifa and Barrosa in Spain in February 1811. They remained in Spain until the end of the Peninsular War and then crossed into Bordeaux. Commanders : Lieutenant-Colonel Humphrey Dalrymple Bland 9/1809-4/1811, Major Richard Broad 6/1811-10/1812, Major Robert Kelly 4/1813-8/1813, Major Richard Chetham 9/1813-4/1814.
See : PDF link

Among the few Sicilian units that were used in Spain was the battaglione di granatieri della guardia reale del Regno di Sicilia (comandante tenente-colonnello Francesco Galluzzi). They landed at Alicante in December 1812 and remained in Catalonia until April 1814.
See : link

However, I cannot see any obvious connection between these two units. It is not impossible that some soldiers of each found themselves on the same ship (for example, being taken to hospital at Gilbraltar).

As noted above, a little detail from the document would help to give you more information.

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2017 7:53 p.m. PST

Will post pic of document tomorrow
thanks Le Breton

Kevin in Albuquerque Supporting Member of TMP15 Nov 2017 7:59 p.m. PST

I am very sorry – I'm tired and somewhat sleep deprived. When I saw this topic I had an image come to mind of ferocious Sicilians storming a fortified position and tossing pizzas at the enemy.

My bad.

Personal logo 22ndFoot Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2017 8:48 a.m. PST

Are you sure it's the 47th foot and not the 27th? The 2/27th were part, with 605 Sicilian grenadiers, of Bentinck's expedition from Sicily to eastern Spain in 1812. They embarked on 14 November 1812.

A link to Fortescue:

link

The 1st Btn 47th was in India at this time and the 2/47th, having been in Gibraltar as stated, was in Portugal.

Personal logo Il Granatiere Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2017 11:05 a.m. PST

According to the agreement with the British government, a Sicilian brigade composed by a Royal Grenadier battalion , the 1st " Estero" ( foreigner) regiment , 2 squadrons of cavalry and an artillery battery arrived in Spain on February 1813. They were engaged at the siege of Tarragona. The uniform of the grenadiers in the pictures are for palace service and combat.




Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2017 11:23 a.m. PST

Now it may well be that these chaps would have struck terror into 1/95, such that The Rifles would have fled at the first shot..

and yet….I doubt that.

Even less after re-reading as I see they were on our side!

Every so often you see soldiers in a rig that suggests the greatest threat they suggested to their opposition is inducing a fit of helpless laughter and "apoplexy", I think it was called.

Personally, I feel a Phlegmon of the Lites coming on, as I look at their outfits.

For those of you who do throw dice, I think these chaps need a 6 to just enter the table, let alone stay there for 5 minutes!

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2017 8:01 p.m. PST

Here you go guys the actual embarkation log pape my customer has link

Personal logo Mserafin Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2017 8:31 p.m. PST

"I don't know what effect these men will have on the enemy, but by God, they terrify me."

Le Breton16 Nov 2017 8:55 p.m. PST

Granatiere :
Very nice prints. Thank you.
Do you know the work in whihc they were published?

=============

Am I doing something wrong ?
I can access an image of the log that is 900 x 1600 pixels but it is only 78 kb in size (like a massively enlarged thumnail) and is so blurred that I cannot make out a single word.
Can other colleagues read it ?

Personal logo Il Granatiere Supporting Member of TMP16 Nov 2017 11:02 p.m. PST

Le Breton the images came from the volume " L' Esercito Borbonico dal 1789 al 1815", published by the Italian Army Historical Office, authors Giancarlo Boeri e Piero Crociani. There are other three volumes covering the period 1815- 1861, text in Italian with a lot of images.
Kevin in Albuquerque, to be precise the troops were Sicilian, so no chance to toss pizza at the enemy, at least caponata or other Sicilian food, ( Pizza at the time was specifically Neapolitan)
The army was 9.000 strong and only 2.000 were really involved in operations in Spain and in Italy, fighting for a certain period even on the same side of Murat. Really a small effort but I did't find complains from the British, that were paying these troops, regarding their service. Good cannon fodder……..

Le Breton17 Nov 2017 3:53 a.m. PST

Granatiere :
Thank you!
:-)

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP17 Nov 2017 5:18 a.m. PST

Sorry gentlemen i.ll try and get a better pic

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP17 Nov 2017 3:18 p.m. PST

Link to original auction has pic .https://m.ebay.com/itm/BRITISH-ARMY-EMBARKATION-DOCUMENT-NAPOLEONIC-WARS-OR-AMERICA-WAR-OF-1812/202077284917?_mwBanner=1#vi__app-cvip-panel

Le Breton18 Nov 2017 12:06 a.m. PST

Indeed, it is the embarkation roster for the departue of British and Allied forces lifting the siege of Tarragona in mid-June 1812. The numbers such as "26 Ellice" refer to the identification number given by the Royal Navy to merchant ships and transports.

page 1


Embarkation State
____________________________________________
58th Regt – Bristol 760 Head Qrs
Staff Horses and Mules in the Hyperion 203
and Albeona 10 Camp Kettle Mules Isis 391
____________________________________________
4th K.G.L.
Nos.
26 Ellice 280 Men |
87 ???llington 400 do --| Head Qrs
81 Essex 200 do | = 880
Regtl Staff Horses & Mules Hyperion 203 Camp
Kettle Mules Thames 106
____________________________________________
67th Regt
Nos. Men
H. M. Ship Brune 300 | Hd Qrs
312 Marnier 55 |
75 Alconi 55 --| 500
335 ????llinton 50 |
241 Mary 40 |
Horses & Mules Hyperion 203 C.K. Mules Thames 106

page 2

Sicilian Grenadiers
Nos. Men
278 Dominica 360 | Lt.Col. Galluzzo
242 C. Williams 35 --| = 430 Men
88 Progress 35 |
Horses and Mules ???lantha 410 C.K. Mules Peace 250
____________________________________________
Estico Regt

Nos. Men
173 Anacreon 380 | Hd Qrs Col. Pastore
64 Nymph 280 --| 830
417 Request 170 |
Horses and Mules ???lantha 410 C.K. Mules Peace 250
____________________________________________
Staff 1st Division
??? White …. Heart of Oak 325 M.Gl. Smith
Capt Brace … Ann Staff Sergent Frank???
Capt K???sterman … Anacreon


page 3

Rolls Dillions

261 Recovery Hd Qrs
110 Ann
132 British Ann

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP18 Nov 2017 6:43 a.m. PST

WoW!
Thanks Guys!
I told the customer that I knew just the place to get the info.
Well Done!
The Wargaming Community at it's finest.

Personal logo Il Granatiere Supporting Member of TMP18 Nov 2017 7:23 a.m. PST

Great work Le Breton!! Col. Pastore was the Commanding Officer of the Sicilian Brigade and the Regiment on the second page is Estero.

Le Breton18 Nov 2017 3:56 p.m. PST

"the Regiment on the second page is Estero."
Indeed, but spelled in British, I think.
:-)

We also have the utterly exotic de Roll / Dillon combined provisional battalion.

We know this is the embarkation to depart as Havilland Smith is listed after being promoted Major-General.

And the commander of the expedition's court martial is here : link

The auction listing said ther was another, larger, folded page.

Personal logo Il Granatiere Supporting Member of TMP19 Nov 2017 6:21 a.m. PST

Only to complete…. Sicilian Estero Regiment


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