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"A Minoan sealstone in the tomb of a Bronze Age Greek warrior" Topic


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581 hits since 7 Nov 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Jeff Ewing Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 8:55 a.m. PST

"The "Pylos Combat Agate," as the seal has come to be known for the fierce hand-to-hand battle it portrays, promises not only to rewrite the history of ancient Greek art, but to help shed light on myth and legend in an era of Western civilization still steeped in mystery."

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mwindsorfw Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 9:03 a.m. PST

Cool. Thanks.

Personal logo Unlucky General Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 9:37 a.m. PST

Well what the article doesn't discuss is the challenge it presents to notions of military equipment. I've never been a fan of the orthodox Trojan period representations and it seems now we can look to crested helmets again. Far more classical ancient 'Greek' looking … don't you think?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 9:49 a.m. PST

Wow.

Personal logo BigRedBat Sponsoring Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 10:47 a.m. PST

Fantastic!

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 11:41 a.m. PST

I smell a FAKE! The lines are way too smooth for the technology of the period and the poses too dynamic for the style of that era (1,500 BCE).

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Dan
PS. Perhaps if the poses had been more static, almost Egyptian-like, as in their wall art and gold work (and both of those are even easier to work with than stone):

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goragrad07 Nov 2017 11:43 a.m. PST

Very interesting.

Particularly after following up with the prior articles.

After seeing the Ramesses II exhibit at the DAM in the late 80s I was impressed by the detailed craftsmanship exhibited on the cartouches and other symbols on the items on display.

This nearly contemporary engraving is even more impressive.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian07 Nov 2017 2:18 p.m. PST

Is that a shield or a cape?

That's a different shield crest, too! Looks like the opponent is grabbing the crest like a handle…

GurKhan07 Nov 2017 3:29 p.m. PST

Well what the article doesn't discuss is the challenge it presents to notions of military equipment.

I don't think there is any such challenge. This is not from the "Trojan War" period but several centuries earlier, and is the same style of equipment as shown in several existing representations – have a look at link

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 4:32 p.m. PST

Archaeologists think the artist may have been nearsighted, as no method of magnification was found.

OneHuaiTicket07 Nov 2017 5:30 p.m. PST

I have to agree that it looks to be fake. Just not at all in keeping with anything else from that period. BUT, all the reputable sources have reported it, so maybe? More to come, I hope…

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 9:49 p.m. PST

Fake? It's stamped on the back "1500BC". Proof right there it's genuine.

bsrlee07 Nov 2017 11:21 p.m. PST

Having followed the various publications of the excavation in the 'Net press, it looks like this is a genuine piece, the grave goods in that particular otherwise unopened tomb are spectacular in general, this is just the equivalent of the Mona Lisa.

And yes, if it had turned up by itself I would be up there crying 'fake' too, the craftsman of this was up there with Leonardo & Michelangelo.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP07 Nov 2017 11:46 p.m. PST

And he happened to have had all the "modern" tools to make it, from several centuries later, right? :)

Dan

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GurKhan08 Nov 2017 1:27 a.m. PST

I smell a FAKE! The lines are way too smooth for the technology of the period and the poses too dynamic for the style of that era (1,500 BCE).

The dynamic poses seem to me to be entirely in keeping with other early Mycenaean combat scenes.

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It's really only the quality of the anatomical depiction that stands out.

basileus6610 Nov 2017 4:53 a.m. PST

Don't see why it must be a fake. Looks consistent with other artifacts and graphic representations from the times and the finding has been well documented.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2017 5:45 a.m. PST

Lol. We'll see. They probably "forgot" to mention the rusty Pepsi bottle cap that was found under it. Just kidding. That's an AVP (2004) reference. Poor Sebastian.

But the more I look at the image on the seal the more I see the face of Alexander the Great (it just happens to be 1200 years off). :)

Time will tell if it's a "refurbished" antique fake* … unless fear of embarrassment "buries" the finding and it suddenly disappears for exhibit without the truth ever coming out. Controversial pieces do tend to go missing every so often.

Dan
* Perhaps a piece that was never completed, leaving the right side as a blank canvas for a talented forger. The proof will be in the pudding … it will be in the carving grooves of the figure on the right, with the helmet, which looks (to me) to have been done by a different artist, and not carved to the depth of the one on the left.
GurKan, he might have even used the second image in your post as his model. Same pose and everything, though it's not as smooth as what would be possible much later on. :)

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