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"Why do sculptors get snipers wrong?" Topic

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2,642 hits since 6 Nov 2017
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Rhysius Cambrensis Inactive Member06 Nov 2017 4:01 p.m. PST

So I have been building and painting a 28mm Soviet force. I inevitably have purchased some sniper figures from 3 different manufacturers to compare them – Bad Squiddo, Warlord Games, and 1st Corp. All very nice figures in their own rights, but only 1st Corp have got the sculpt right. The sniper will not be suffering from idiot eye after pulling their trigger.

Do sculptors sculpt these figures with no knowledge of how to use a scoped Bolt Action rifle?

haywire Supporting Member of TMP06 Nov 2017 4:09 p.m. PST

Possibly… or they do it to make it easier for casting

thosmoss06 Nov 2017 5:28 p.m. PST

Urban Dictionary says:

Idiot eyes
Someone that looks at something beautiful, or otherwise awesome, and doesn't see its beauty and/or awesomeness.

Given my street smarts, I have no idea what you're talking about. And I'll bet I buy all the wrong snipers because of it.

dragon606 Nov 2017 5:40 p.m. PST

Look up eye relief.

Basically if you have your eye right next to the scope eyepiece, as many figures do, and shoot you get the scope hitting you in the eye

Korvessa06 Nov 2017 6:00 p.m. PST

I am not good enough at math to figure it out, but at that scale, wouldn't the inch or two distance between eye and scope be very very small?

saltflats192906 Nov 2017 9:02 p.m. PST

All miniature companies do snipers wrong- you should only have a base with some foliage on it.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP06 Nov 2017 10:44 p.m. PST

It's probably a casting issue.

This sounds like rivet counting to me. It wouldn't keep me from playing in a good looking game just because of one figure.

foxweasel07 Nov 2017 1:03 a.m. PST

Nice one Saltflats. All snipers know their own eye relief, which is why scopes are adjustable, perhaps all these snipers have enough muscle mass not to be overly affected by recoil. Or maybe they're just using the scope to observe.

Bob in Edmonton07 Nov 2017 6:01 a.m. PST

Idiot eye is sometimes called scope eye in Canada.

Ferd4523107 Nov 2017 6:51 a.m. PST

maybe they didn't zero in before scupting> H

Choctaw07 Nov 2017 8:09 a.m. PST

It's called scope eye in Texas too, Bob. Idiot eye is spot on though. There is nothing quite like the sensation of having the scope smash into your face upon recoil.

JARROVIAN Supporting Member of TMP08 Nov 2017 2:54 p.m. PST

I find poses are the problem. No sniper worth his salt will fire from any position other than prone, where the three points of contact are stable (both elbows and chest), and the back of the forehand is rested, usually on a sandbag or such. The weapon itself can't be in contact with any 'scenery'.
Most modern weapons have a bipod to assist, which can be braced by a slight pull back or push forward).
The three points of stable contact can also be achieved in a suitably shaped trench, but this exposes much of the head and torso.
Usually not enough cammo on figures either

foxweasel08 Nov 2017 5:01 p.m. PST

I don't think poses really are the problem. In any games we play the figure shouldn't be seen, really it could be treated like off table artillery. Unless normal troops are unbelievably lucky, only another sniper will locate a sniper. So the pose of the figure doesn't matter. Actually, the sitting position is probably the most realistic (apart from prone) to represent a sniper. When I was in charge of our sniper section (I wasn't a sniper, they came under mortars for admin etc) they used to carry 3 sticks all the time to make a tripod to use when sitting. I caught them camouflaging the sticks one day, my comment of "what are you idiots doing, sticks are already stick coloured!" didn't go down well.

per ardua Inactive Member24 Nov 2017 1:34 p.m. PST

/\ what haywire, saltflats and foxweasel said.

But yes very rarely miniatures will have appropriate eye relief.

Glad to say I never used a tripod, just the sling. :-)

Correct eye relief on the L96A1 was 76mm, and is the keystone for tailoring the rifle around the firer otherwise you would not get correct sight picture, and get 'half moon' effect.

Regards P.A.

SeattleGamer Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2017 9:50 a.m. PST

I wonder how many sculptors have ever shot a scoped rifle? In fact, that has me wondering how many sculptors CAN shoot a rifle, scoped or otherwise?

In the USA, that is not an issue. Go get one, take it to a range, use it. But I always have in the back of my mind that more sculptors are in the UK and can they even go purchase a rifle, and a scope, and is there a place they can go shoot? Or would the paperwork be so extreme to get a firearm its just not worth it?

per ardua Inactive Member01 Dec 2017 3:03 p.m. PST

An air rifle is about as far as you'll be able to go in the UK without a very lengthy process involving the police firearms licencing stuff. Not many private ranges about.

I would suspect that Google images is about as far as one would need to go.

Many manufacturers, especially plastic manufacturers seem to love tick – tocking poses too, especially running with a rifle held in one arm.

God wills it Inactive Member01 Dec 2017 3:55 p.m. PST

28mm ww2 and eye relief is the issue…

Funny guy.

Lee49405 Dec 2017 5:16 p.m. PST

So what now mini sculptors had to have shot a scoped rifle to do a sniper? And just how many do you think fired an MG 42 or drove a tiger tank? Using your absurd criteria We'd have no minis on the market. Good grief Charlie Brown get real! Cheers

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Dec 2017 7:42 a.m. PST

Well on the whole I find a lot of 28mm stuff is less than brilliant, a lot of the designers tend to go for the WH40k look and often with the same level of attention to detail/accuracy.
Some of us try to get it right.

As for ' No sniper worth his salt will fire from any position other than prone' thats just not at all true. If you read the training manuals and read the first hand accounts youd realise that the prone position is just one of the possibilities used. German training emphasised firng from standing or kneeling position. Prone certainly has a lot of limitations in terms of field of view and mobility


wmyers08 Feb 2018 5:46 p.m. PST

LeonAdler, that is a very nice figure! Who sells it? (I am guessing it is 28mm?)

Beaumap09 Feb 2018 6:40 a.m. PST

I shoot in the UK out to 1000 yards. Plenty of shooting opportunities and the regulation is pretty sensible – just delays when renewing Firearms Certs. Eye relief is a BIG DEAL. I cannot bear most sniper figures in any scale.

Craig Harrison of the Blues & Royals, who made the longest sniper kill with a 'normal' calibre rifle (.338 Lapua) did it standing while leaning on a crumbling wall. The shot was measured by a helicopter laser system at 2,707 yards! 2 Canadians have recently pushed out to a couple of miles, using .50 Cal Barretts. I don't want to detract from their amazing feats of skill, but they were indeed prone, stable, and using what is classed by some armies as a cannon. By the way, Harrison honestly remarked that the kill shots were his 9th and 10th attempts. So much lead was flying that the Talib didn't know they were being specifically targetted until it was too late. Harrison didn't have a spotter colleague. He did it by eye.

Beaumap09 Feb 2018 6:47 a.m. PST

Sorry – the Canadians used Macmillan TAC-50s.

MacColla10 Feb 2018 3:25 p.m. PST

wymers, it's one of Leon's 20mm range!

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Feb 2018 12:15 a.m. PST

Its part of a Waffen SS sniper set in 20mm, not yet released.
We have Heer ones available.

foxweasel17 Feb 2018 2:15 a.m. PST

They're lovely figures Leon, and not a prone one amongst them!

LeonAdler Sponsoring Member of TMP17 Feb 2018 2:04 p.m. PST

lol well you often have to fight against what people 'think' rather than what was/is. I think the breadth of knowledge of a lot of wargamers has declined over the years or Im just getting grumpier…………..and grumpier lol

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