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"FOW Desert Rats - 4th Edition Valentine?" Topic


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23 Oct 2017 3:26 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "FOW Desert Rats- 4th Edition Valentine?" to "FOW Desert Rats - 4th Edition Valentine?"


743 hits since 23 Oct 2017
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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GGouveia23 Oct 2017 10:26 a.m. PST

Why would the Valentine not be listed in the FOW 4th edition of Desert Rats?

The Valentine was being used mid-41. I don't get it? reason?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP23 Oct 2017 10:58 a.m. PST

Play 3rd. Problem solved. grin

GGouveia23 Oct 2017 11:06 a.m. PST

I think I get it, they simply included the Order of Battle for 7th Armoured Division- The Desert Rats.

Neal Smith23 Oct 2017 11:47 a.m. PST

There's probably some card pack that has it in it, somewhere…

Wargamer Blue23 Oct 2017 1:36 p.m. PST

It will be included in the Brit Desert Infantry book. That book is due early 2018. And the Valentine will be a plastic kit.

21eRegt Supporting Member of TMP23 Oct 2017 3:34 p.m. PST

I'm still playing it, as are the group I'm with, but we often say aloud, "What were they thinking?".

GGouveia24 Oct 2017 8:03 a.m. PST

21eRegt, what is the groups main complaint of FOW 4th edition vs 3rd?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP24 Oct 2017 9:15 a.m. PST

I don't know about his group, but my group feels that whatever tenuous grip V3 had on history has been thrown under the bus with V4.
Tigers at Alamein? 17pdrs at Alamein?
It has degenerated into a completely points driven tournament game, losing all historical flavor.

We call V4 "World War 2, the Gathering".

GGouveia24 Oct 2017 11:01 a.m. PST

Having read the Desert Rats and Afrika Korp books I believe the 17lbers were used on a 25 lber frame and the Tiger was used in 43 for both. If you are specifically playing Alamein don't use either. That's what I would do. I don't play tournaments.

Quote from Desert Rats: on 17/25 frame.
"The resulting 17/25-pounder, codenamed the ‘Pheasant', first saw action
at the Battle of Medenine in March 1943."

Regarding the Tiger, they say in the rules the following:
"The massive Tiger tank was planned to be in service for the Battle of El
Alamein. Technical problems delayed its arrival in North Africa until later
in the year when they were shipped to Tunisia to fight there. They fought
alongside the Afrika Korps in the Battle of Kasserine Pass."

So I would only use the Tiger vs the Yanks at Kasserine.

My feeling it is a tool for you to use as you see fit.

wizbangs25 Oct 2017 4:34 a.m. PST

Apparently a lot of people rely on or assume historical accuracy with FOW. Although they give you the tools with which to do so, they leave it to you to do the homework. The v4 book covers the mid-war period from Alamein through Tunisia, so there's an array of weapons/units available.

Without doing your homework & allowing the addition of the Tiger or 17 pounder at Alamein, you might as well plop the Americans in there too (which, as Winston notes, brings you to "World War II, The Gathering."

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP25 Oct 2017 9:38 a.m. PST

V3 could be quite resrtrictive in forces allowed.
For instance, if you wanted to field Churchills in the 8th Army, you could only do it with a Motor Rifle Company as Kingforce.
Then check out the allowed German forces in Market Garden. Again, quite restricted.
To me 4th seems too loosey goosey. Anything goes. If you have the points, you're good.

I'm also annoyed that 4th came along just in time to push EW Pacific off the schedule. I was eager to do Philippines 1941-2.
Yes, I can still do it without the imprimatur of BF, but I was looking forward to pretty pictures.

fingolfen Inactive Member25 Oct 2017 1:23 p.m. PST

Previous incarnations of FoW definitely spent more time grounding the lists historically and providing most if not all of the options for those particular forces. Sure, you could do a little max/min if you really really worked at it, but you REALLY had to work at it.

In V4… well, honestly my biggest beef with V4 is the very generic abusable lists…

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