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"Austrians in 1809: Helmet or Shako?" Topic


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Erzherzog Johann11 Oct 2017 8:03 p.m. PST

Another question. I know the Hungarians were issued shakos in 1806(?) so people generally depict them in shakos for the 1809 campaign, but what about the "German" regiments? is there any information to suggest which of these would have been in the shako? This painting link depicts a German formation in shako at Aspern-Essling but the painting's details may be anachronistic.

I like the idea of having a mix of both types, ideally with some confidence about getting the right regiments in the right kit. Any thoughts?

Cheers,
John

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian11 Oct 2017 8:22 p.m. PST

mix. I generally use Helmets for Austrian regiments and Shako for Hungarian. Regiments that were raised later get shako as well. IIRC the transition wasn't complete until 1813

bruntonboy12 Oct 2017 1:51 a.m. PST

As Sabre says…about six German regiments had the shako in 1809 but unfortunately I can't say which ones they were….Chandler in his book on Aspern-Essling/Wagram doubts any were worn. I am sure I have sen a list of the six units but can't find it- sorry.

rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 4:46 a.m. PST

I agree with Saber6. That is what I would do. I have read a lot about the 1809 campaign and nothing specified which German regiments might have been issued shakos. Of course, I love the helmets and would not paint up German shakos anyway, so I am a bit prejudiced in that regard.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2017 5:40 a.m. PST

Same as above – I use helmets for 1809 and before and shakos after that – as most of my Napoleonics are 6mm I have the luxury of having Austrian troops in both!

von Winterfeldt12 Oct 2017 11:28 a.m. PST

maybe this helps a bit

"The "official" (k.k. sources) substitution of Caskets with Shakos began after the December 1807 Verordnung in 1808 (with some exceptions – see after) but went ahead in a very cumbersome way (due of lack of resources and the exaggerated increase in troopers considering the Landwehr units). The first units to receive shakos were the Hungarians (it was a common hat in Insurrectio units) but at the beginning of the 1809 Bavarian campaign several German regiments wore old helmets.
So k.k. IR 54 Morzin (Bohemian) in 1808 "Got the Csako instead of the helmet. Every battalion had its own flag.."
This is from the history of the hungarian k.k.IR 34 FZM baron Paul Davidovich – Year is 1807.
"In September we received the imperial infantry Czakos instead of the helmet as head protection, the Grenadiers, however, maintained their Bärenmützen."
And this is from the history of the hungarian k.k.IR 30 De Ligne (Galician) and from k.k. IR62 Jellacich (Hungarian)
" In December 1806 the infantry got the Csako instead of the helmet. This was made of black tissue, reinforced hardly on the top [mit einem Sonnen-Nacken- und zwei Seiten-Schirmen versehen, vorne mit einer Schlinge und Cocarde von Messing sowie mit einer schwarz-gelben Rose verziert. ] Als o the Officers wore the Czako like troopers, but without Nacken- und Seiten-Schirm and did have [Schlinge, Cocarde, Rose sowie Chargen-Abzeichen von Goldborten.] Corporals had one yellow [Harrasborte], Führern and Feldwebeln had two yellow [Harrasborten] … [bei den Subaltern-Officieren in einer, durch einen schwarzen Streifen getheilten, bei den Hauptleuten in einer breiten goldenen Borte; die Stabsofficiere erhielten goldbortierte Hüte ohne Federbusch.
"

Erzherzog Johann12 Oct 2017 2:59 p.m. PST

Thanks very much everyone for your contributions.
Cheers,
John

Cardinal Hawkwood12 Oct 2017 6:24 p.m. PST

I am a shako man, those helmets are just plain silly

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian12 Oct 2017 6:43 p.m. PST

ah, but when you've painted a few hundred "skunk" stripes it grows on you.

Last Hussar04 Jan 2019 3:52 p.m. PST

those helmets are just plain silly

and thats why I want some.

Lambert Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2019 7:54 a.m. PST

Same here. Just ordered some!

Major Bloodnok07 Jan 2019 9:56 a.m. PST

I used to have Austrians in helmets. They were in 60 man bns. They were 15mm minifigs that came on strips.

SHaT198408 Jul 2019 5:30 a.m. PST

Both.
And why silly?
A very effective leather bound cap not hugely different to modern firemens helmets…
dave

Erzherzog Johann10 Jul 2019 2:31 a.m. PST

They were expensive and didn't last as long as had been expected.

Kirk Yaro15 May 2021 8:34 a.m. PST

I'm interested in the same question as well.
1809 is my priority campaign, and I want to decide how to paint my new HaT Austrian infantry in shakos :)

Erzherzog Johann15 May 2021 2:55 p.m. PST

From my research and from the information above in this thread, I've settled on four in shakos for 1809:

So IR54 Formerly Morzin, then Froon, (See von Winterfeldt's post above)

IR30 Furst de Ligne, (See von Winterfeldt's post above)

IR15 Zach & IR18 Stuart based on near contemporary paintings). Eg in the famous painting by Johann Peter Krafft shows EHK holding the standard of IR15, they're in shakos. There's a painting (can't remember who by) that shows a 'German' unit in shakos at Aspern-Essling that I thought *could* be IR18 (some shade of red facings, right area of the battle). These aren't certain by any means but we know there were a few and they seem as likely as any other. We have paintings of units (eg IR49 Kerpen) in helmets, so that rules some of them out.

I'm happy with that for the time being. I may come across more (or contradictory) evidence but for the time being it seems plausible. Unless I find good reason to do otherwise, all other regiments I paint will be in helmets.

Cheers,
John

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