Help support TMP

"NATO to Launch Black Sea Force as Latest Counter to Russia" Topic

18 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the Ultramodern Warfare (2008-present) Message Board

788 hits since 9 Oct 2017
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian09 Oct 2017 7:52 p.m. PST

NATO is set to launch a new multinational force in Romania on Monday to counter Russia along its eastern flank and to check a growing Russian presence in the Black Sea following the Kremlin's 2014 seizure of Crimea.

Initially a small force relying on troops from 10 NATO countries including Italy and Canada, as well as Romania, the land, air and sea deployments will complement about 900 U.S. troops already in place.


paulgenna10 Oct 2017 8:10 a.m. PST

I guess the US will have to continue to carry the burden in Europe. Mind blowing that the European countries cannot put enough troops on the front to stop Russian aggression.

1968billsfan Supporting Member of TMP10 Oct 2017 8:19 a.m. PST

Well, Obama campaigned there for His last election and recently the democrats have gone ballistic over Trump asking them to kick in a little money for their own defense.

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member10 Oct 2017 9:05 a.m. PST

The Europeans obviously do not perceive the same level of threat from the neighboring Russians felt by panicked Americans half the globe away. Maybe they know something we don't?

OutOnTheOP Inactive Member10 Oct 2017 9:41 a.m. PST

Piper909: Sure, they "know" that they can count on the full weight of the US military to fight the war for them.

…because it's TOTES reasonable of them to expect the US to launch head-first into a nuclear exchange to prevent Russia from annexing bits of eastern European nations.


kiltboy10 Oct 2017 9:41 a.m. PST

The force is to be based in Romania around a core of 4000 Romanian troops. there will be augmentation from other countries but the 900 US troops are on a different tasking and are not part of the new force.

European countries are taking the Russian threat seriously and are providing for their defense. Russia is a threat as Georgia and Ukraine will testify. Not to mention that Moscow views the European Union as a threat and wishes to weaken it.

paulgenna10 Oct 2017 12:39 p.m. PST

With GB leaving how can they be weakened any more? Germany, France and Italy have very few tanks and their air force is needing some new toys. Russia on the other hand, is building new toys and has thousands in reserve. The US should not be shouldering the cost of defense in Europe and that is what is exactly happening.

Begemot Inactive Member10 Oct 2017 12:53 p.m. PST

Kiltboy – Don't forget the Russian threat to our precious bodily fluids.

JMcCarroll Inactive Member10 Oct 2017 3:17 p.m. PST

and there Bloody bots !

kiltboy10 Oct 2017 4:59 p.m. PST

You are confusing military and economic weakness. The EU as a trade and political block offers an alternative to what Moscow is offering and that is why they are a threat to Moscow.
Too many here neglect to understand that a military action is a result of an economic need. Wars are not fought for no reason and the primary reason is typically money.

kiltboy10 Oct 2017 5:03 p.m. PST

France and the UK also have nuclear weapons, not just the US.
There is also a lack of understanding with regard to Russian contract vs conscript troops and the impact that returning dead has on Russia. It stopped Afghanistan and NATO is a damn site more lethal the the Ukranians have been to date.
Russia took great pains to hide their involvement in Ukraine and any high intensity warfare would quickly become impossible to hide.

JARROVIAN Supporting Member of TMP10 Oct 2017 5:04 p.m. PST

Great Britain is leaving the EU, it is not leaving NATO, and is fully committed to the defence of the west.

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member11 Oct 2017 11:00 a.m. PST

I must take a contrarian stance. I only see evidence of NATO continuing efforts to encircle and threaten the Russian "homeland" (to use a term du jour of American fear-mongering since 2001). How are the Russians supposed to react to these provocations? Are the Russians reviving the Warsaw Bloc? Are they building bases in the Gulf of Mexico or Canada? What are they to make of American subversion of the Ukrainian government and desires to obtain naval bases in Crimea and bring Ukraine into NATO? Is NATO really about defending Western Europe from invasion anymore, or simply pushing the Russians back to the gates of Moscow and hoping they'll crack?

Tit for tat military build ups and posturing are not going to ease tensions one bit in this region. Russia can barely contain its own unruly minorities or project its power beyond the Near East in anything but a minimal way. It can't swallow indigestible Europe. Why do they remain such boogeymen in the eyes of "the West"? You want a clash with Russia, by all means stoke their paranoia by moves like these. Everything about current policy reminds me of nothing so much as the lead-up to the Peloponnesian War, with fear, suspicion, and proxy wars between satellite states making Sparta feel backed into a corner. Not wise policy.

paulgenna11 Oct 2017 12:21 p.m. PST

Jarrovian, I understand GB is not leaving NATO but that does not preclude that GB needs to defend themselves first and NATO second. Nor does it change the fact that Germany has less than 400 Leo IIA6/7 in their active inventory and France has about the same. Italy only has about 100 active tanks.

War is fought multiple reasons and not just money. If I was Russia I would strongly consider now. NATO is weak and many countries have no ability to defend themselves let alone their allies. Plus, these same countries are just as likely to cave and give into Russia both land and money.

kiltboy12 Oct 2017 8:20 a.m. PST

Piper your contrarian stance ignores that former Warsaw Pact countries chose to join NATO. Those countries had lived under Moscow's rule and didn't seem to enjoy it and took steps to preserve their independence.
As others here have stated NATO has reduced their armor from cold war levels as Russia wasn't seen as a threat until it's recent actions of invading Geirgia and Ukraine.
The armies of the Baltic are not going to storm Moscow and the concern in Ikraine was that Russia would lose Sevastapol.
The entire energy deal that was signed prior to Maidan was terrible for Ukraine and was ratified under dubious circumstances by Putin's puppet who subsequently fled.
Where Ukraine is a threat to Putin is that it shows the Russian population that change is possible. Putin killed Nemtsov as he was a threat and an improved Ukraine is likewise a threat to his survival.

Begemot Inactive Member12 Oct 2017 5:13 p.m. PST

Where Ukraine is a threat to Putin is that it shows the Russian population that change is possible. Putin killed Nemtsov as he was a threat and an improved Ukraine is likewise a threat to his survival.

Ukraine is more an example of what not to do. The average Ukrainian's personal circumstances have not improved since the Maidan of 2013-2014. One set of kleptocrats has been replaced by another set of kleptocrats who do well for themselves. The rest of the population sinks slowly into greater immiseration.

So, no, the Russian people aren't looking across the border into Ukraine and thinking that their lives would be better, like those Ukrainians', if only that SOB Putin will go away. Putin enjoys an 80% plus approval rating in Russia. He doesn't need to kill politicians like Nemtsov or Navalny whose ratings are below 10%, because they are not a threat, regardless of what the Western media says.

Lion in the Stars12 Oct 2017 6:00 p.m. PST

Piper your contrarian stance ignores that former Warsaw Pact countries chose to join NATO. Those countries had lived under Moscow's rule and didn't seem to enjoy it and took steps to preserve their independence.


Piper, you are seeing things exactly the way Moscow/Putin wants.

The entirety of eastern Europe has said, "NO, we're done with being part of your territorial ambitions" to Moscow, and Czar Vlad doesn't like that.

kiltboy13 Oct 2017 6:04 a.m. PST

And we have the Internet Research Agency spouting the party line again.
Putin invaded when his puppet fled and he thought his plans for Sevastapol where in jeopardy. Russia as invaded eastern Ukraine with plenty of evidence of Russian armor and troops in the Donbass. Not to mention they shot down MH17 and launched air attacks into the Donbass.

A historical record of tehir actions can be seen here.

The reason for that is that when Ukraine had the Maidan the Ukranians changed their political leader and Putin absolutely fears that. He saw it happen in East Germany when he was there as KGB officer and he absolutely fears any type of dissent no matter how small.
The journalists that investigate him are killed in the street or in elevators. Critics are killed with polonium in their tea and the murderers given seats in the Duma.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.