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"1er régiment de chasseurs à cheval" Topic


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1,671 hits since 5 Oct 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2017 1:24 a.m. PST

Made using Perry plastic French hussar box.

picture

link

Marc at work06 Oct 2017 3:42 a.m. PST

They look nice – very dashing and nicely based as a unit. Good blog as well. Thanks for sharing

Marc

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2017 4:34 a.m. PST

So green – so very, very green

Great unit – these have to be the most under-represented type of cavalry in the Napoleonic Wars given how many hussars you see on the table versus chasseurs

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2017 5:27 a.m. PST

Yeah, I do want to do the entire Chasseur brigade at Auerstadt, but it's hard finding good Chasseurs in pre-Bardin uniforms, that's why I started with the 1st.

Extrabio1947 Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2017 6:26 a.m. PST

Lovely figures, Gunfreak. You've trained those Huskies to paint very, very well.

Frederick's comments are well taken. I can't remember the last time I saw a regiment of French Chasseurs å Cheval on a gaming table.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2017 7:31 a.m. PST

The sun did shine for you! Great work, really imaginative to convert hussars to early chasseurs. I like the white horse that you hate!

So glad you showed us these photos

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP06 Oct 2017 8:39 a.m. PST

Thanks guys.

Widowson06 Oct 2017 2:31 p.m. PST

Very nice. I usually go in for full dress, but I do stop short of providing eagles for French light cavalry units. To each his own.

I've always wanted to do a 1/72 conversion unit of these guys for the 100 days campaign – carabinier helmets on chasseur figs.

Widowson06 Oct 2017 3:04 p.m. PST

Wait – you're saying that the 1st Chasseurs wore dolmons as late as 1806? Not sure I knew that before.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2017 12:21 a.m. PST

According to Napoleon's Finest book they did. I don't have any harder sources than that.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2017 2:00 a.m. PST

Eagles and miniature units? My Gendarmes d'Elite have no fewer than three….for the one squadron that appeared on the Big day in 1815…..

They just look so good. Like the guidons for the Household cavalry

EricThe Shed07 Oct 2017 2:33 a.m. PST

excellent stuff

madcam2us07 Oct 2017 12:36 p.m. PST

Thought 1st ChaCev wore the lancer helmet. At Waterloo or sure. Earlier too?

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP07 Oct 2017 12:43 p.m. PST

France didn't have lancers in 1805-1807 so I don't think any units had lancer helmets.

nsolomon9907 Oct 2017 5:54 p.m. PST

Finest light cavalry regiment in the French Army! Not often known, most people assume the Hussars are in some way better quality than Chasseurs but definitely not true in the case of the 1st Chasseurs. Wonderful regiment.

John Miller07 Oct 2017 6:13 p.m. PST

Extrabio1947. We field several regiments of French chasseurs a cheval every game we play as part of the 3rd and 4th corps for 1809. To my mind they are just as dashing as their glamorous cousins in the hussars. I prefer the earlier uniforms so I use every excuse I can think of to have an occasional officer in a dolman or some similar exception to the regulation uniform for 1809. As an interesting aside, if true, I read somewhere that the 2nd regt. was still carrying the earlier saber, "a la Montmorency", (sic ?), per the permission of the Emperor. They often get their asses handed to them but their occasional victories are the cause for great celebration in the mind of their befuddled commander.
John Miller

cncbump Inactive Member08 Oct 2017 8:12 a.m. PST

Yes, the 1st ChaCev wore helmets similar to the lancer helmets during the Waterloo campaign. That was the only Napoleonic campaign where they wore that type of headgear.

Brechtel19808 Oct 2017 8:44 a.m. PST

Finest light cavalry regiment in the French Army

There are at least twenty other Chasseur a Cheval regiments that would dispute that statement if they could, including the other two that were in III Corps with the 1st Regiment.

Montbrun began his career as an enlisted man in the 1st Chasseurs a Cheval as a footnote.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2017 8:53 a.m. PST

There are at least twenty other Chasseur a Cheval regiments that

But not those last 8-10 regiments. They sucked and they knew it!

Brechtel19808 Oct 2017 10:12 a.m. PST

Really? Do you have supporting documentation for your opinion?

And exactly to which regiments are you referring?

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2017 10:27 a.m. PST

You're the one that said at least 20 would disagree. So naturally the rest knew they sucked or they to would disagree.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP08 Oct 2017 10:31 a.m. PST

Just to clarify that helmet issue.

The Restoration (of Louis XVIII) saw many a new style of uniform introduced, indeed some magnificent rig amongst la Maison du Roi. (The best undoubtedly the Black Musketeers)

Crested helmets became "la mode" especially combined with a smaller horse tail hanging behind….totally innovative je pense! Not the case here tho'. Just a crest and "caterpillar"

The 1st Chasseurs leather helmet was an 1814 introduction and had the fleur de lis platet hammered out for the 1815 campaign. So…for sure….not before the ridge south of Brussels

4th Cuirassier08 Oct 2017 12:58 p.m. PST

Nothing caps the mullet crests of the Swedish cuirassiers.

Brechtel19809 Oct 2017 4:47 a.m. PST

So naturally the rest knew they sucked or they to would disagree.

The key term in the posting was 'at least.' Your assumption is incorrect as well as illogical. Unless you take a look at each regiment individually and who commanded it, a judgment for each regiment individually or as a group, cannot be effectively and factually rendered, 'naturally' or not.

For example, if a little research was done, one might find that the 23d and 24th Chasseurs a Cheval, commanded by Marbot and Ameil respectively, were excellent light cavalry regiments. Further, Marbot stated succinctly that Ameil, an officer whom Marbot disliked, was the best light cavalry officer in any army of the period:

'With all [Amiel's] faults, the Emperor appreciated in him one quality which he possessed in the highest degree; he was undoubtedly the best light cavalry officer in any European army. A finer instinct or equal judgment in exploring a country with a glance was never seen. Before riding through a discrict, he divined the obstacles which the maps did not show, foresaw the points where streams, roads, or the smallest paths must emerge, and could draw from the enemy's movements inferences which nearly always proved correct. Both in irregular warfare and in major operations he was a most remarkable officer.'

And while in too many instances Marbot's memoirs reflect 'remembering with advantages' there are situations in the memoirs, such as the quote above, which do ring factual and accurate. And it should also be remembered that Marbot was also an excellent regimental commander.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2017 5:23 a.m. PST
09 Oct 2017 6:44 a.m. PST

I do love everything III corps 1806. Only thing my nerd brain would ask is what you did about the barrel sash? A i think they shouldn't really have them, but it's good to see someone using their brains. ;)

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2017 6:47 a.m. PST

I simply painted it the same color as the uniform, most of it is covered by the saddle and blanket anyway.

Three Armies Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2017 9:43 a.m. PST

lol yeah that's pretty smart I'd say. But If I did that my customers would shoot me, lol. Dont you just hate the pedantic old detail nerds like me. ;)

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2017 9:50 a.m. PST

If I had the skills I would have used some green stuff to fix it, but I have 0 modeling skills even just shopping of plume and gluing it on the side was more than enough touble.
But if you are going to make Chassuers, make them in the regular habit with vest first, I need two regiments of those, but I don't find any I like.
Oh and I need those Prussian 12pdrs with crew!

Art09 Oct 2017 10:03 a.m. PST

G'Day Gents,

Has anyone ever used the 31e Régiment de Chasseurs à cheval…?

Le 31e régiment de chasseurs à cheval est formé en Espagne par décret du 7 septembre 1811 des 1er et 2e régiments provisoires de cavalerie légère. Ces régiments étaient composés des 4e escadrons des 5e régiment de hussards, 11e, 12e et 24e régiments de chasseurs à cheval.

Best Regards
Art

Brechtel19809 Oct 2017 10:08 a.m. PST

With the exception of the uniform color being green, the original chasseurs a cheval uniforms were similar, if not identical, to hussar uniforms.

During 1801-1806 most of the chasseur a cheval regiments were put into the much cheaper tail-coat (habit) with some notable exceptions.

As late as 1805, and possibly longer, the 1st Chasseurs a Cheval was still in hussar dress, along with a shako that still retained the flame, such as the earlier mirliton shako had. The 5th Chasseurs a Cheval still had the hussar-style uniform in 1805 and the officers and NCOs still wore the full hussar uniform as late as 1809.

Chasseurs who wore the barrel sash were usually the officers and NCOs.

In all during the Empire there 29 regiments of chasseurs a cheval, 24 of them being active in 1804. The other five were added later, but one of them, the 30th Chasseurs a Cheval was later converted to a lancer regiment.

Le Breton09 Oct 2017 11:09 a.m. PST

Pour le 31ème de chasseurs ….

Historique, uniformes
link

Souvenirs militaires d'Hippolyte d'Espinchal
link
link

Art09 Oct 2017 11:36 a.m. PST

Monsieur Le Breton

Thank you for the links….

-et si je bien compris…La compagnie d'Elite de 31ème de chasseurs…n'a pas été dotée d'une lance…

mais…

Début Octobre 1813, les 3 premiers escadrons du régiment sont envoyés de l'armée de Catalogne renforcer l'armée d'Italie du Prince Eugène…et le regiment a formé un escadron de lanciers…ou tout le regiment ensemble?

Best Regards
Art

von Winterfeldt09 Oct 2017 12:43 p.m. PST

@deadhead

Helmets – No – from another seemingly futile discussion:

"

So back to the casques …. and we have the following regarding the action at Rocquencourt on 1 July 1815 :
"Von Sohr apprit que la cavalerie anglaise et prussienne (qu'on apercevait sur the route de Saint-Germain) venait à son secours. Mais on acquit bientôt la certitude que c'était des Français – à savoir le 1er régiment de chasseurs dont les shakos, ressemblant aux nôtres, nous avaient trompés"
Revue de l'Histoire de Versailles et de Seine-et-Oise
Versailles : Bernard, 1968
page 207
Translation :
"Von Sohr [the Prussian cavalry commander] understood that the English and Prussian cavalry (which had been seen on the route from Saint-Germain) had come to his support. But the certainty that they were French was soon apparent – we came know that the 1st chasseurs, their shakos resembling ours, had fooled us."
See also
Geschichte des Feldzugs von 1815 in den Niederlanden und Frankreich
hrsg. Carl von Damitz
Berlin : Mittler 1837-1838
It would not be too likley that the regiment had a re-issue of headgear between 18 June and 1 July, during the French rout and retreat toward Paris. But it is not actually, physically impossible."

Unfortunatley I did not past and copy the author

Three Armies Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2017 1:23 p.m. PST

as we all know the whole napoleonic wars should focus on one day in 1815 and not enjoy the lovely 1806 figures pictured…..

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP09 Oct 2017 1:32 p.m. PST

von Winterfeldt….this is new. The idea that the famous crested black leather helmet did not apply to the 1st Cuirassiers as a carry over from the First Restoration. I have heard that it only applied to some squadrons of 1st, but that seemed a bit odd.

We all know the story that the centre of the brass plate was hammered out or Roi converted to "I" .

Perrys may have to withdraw their figures. Is this yet another Waterloo myth?

and Three Armies, how can you?…

We do all accept that the Napoleonic Wars were not confined to Waterloo. There was Quatre Bras, Ligny and Wavre also…..

Le Breton09 Oct 2017 1:51 p.m. PST

Art,

De page 211 du Tome II des mémoires du brave d'Espinchal :
--- la compagnie d'élite *sans* lances
--- un escadron *avec* des lances

Une chose unique – j'ai l'impression que c'était pour l'escadron de lanciers, que les *deux* rangs étaient équipés de lances. Ceci est à opposer à la méthode polonaise et russe – pour qui seul le premier rang était armé des lances.

Bien à vous, vieux légionnaire, d'un veillard marsouin

von Winterfeldt09 Oct 2017 10:18 p.m. PST

@deadhead

I can only show my source and argument, you must draw your own conclusions from that.

Waterloo, yes ill researched, mystified both in battle and uniforms, good recent research completley ignored and old wrongly trodden paths persued.

Grenadiers à Cheval – still wore their old habits – for example and not the new "curiassier" style they should have worn.

Le Breton10 Oct 2017 3:35 a.m. PST

An article from La Sabretache in 1903:
See link
There is a color plate, said to be contemporary, of an officer, with red trousers bearing 2 white stripes on the side seams and matching schabraque
The distinctions accorded the regiment :
--- all ranks received the décoration du Lys 16 juin 1814
--- black leather Bavarian style casque, brass/gilt metalwork, plaque with 3 fleur-de-lys and the legend "CHASSEURS DU ROI", white plume
--- white aiguillettes and contre-épaulettes for the troops

The author in La Sabretache says he had examoned two casques with the oval bearing the Lys removed and resulting space filled with a number "1", the legend beneath being modified to read "CHASSEURS DU I". He also notes that the white aiguillettes (and perhaps also the white contre-épaulettes) were no longer worn since then had been royal honorifiques.

Example from a museum in Reims :

picture

From a private collection :

picture

picture

picture


================

Their colonel under the 1st restoration was de Saint-Chamans. He left very good memoires, but does not mention the casques.
See link

================

The regiment was supposed to be a part of the royal garde. It was decided in late 1814 to form a separate royal guard and first regiments of each arm of cavalry would get the "du Roi" honorific and would form part of the 1ere division militaire à Paris. An inventory of December 1814 showed 233 casques in the dépot. I would suppose that they did not yet have enough casques for the whole regiment by the time Napoléon returned. If I were to model them, I would put half in casques and half in shakos. But since the only eye-witness report we have says "shakos", that might be the better choice for the whole regiment.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP10 Oct 2017 10:19 a.m. PST

The links provided are superb (as is the research gone into this topic thread….many thanks.)

fascinating that the colonel's memoires talk of Waterloo and not Mt St Jean. Clever that he also talks of the Campaign des "Cent Heures" that finished the "Cent-Jours". Never heard that before!

Three Armies Supporting Member of TMP10 Oct 2017 10:57 a.m. PST

and now back to 1806….

Art10 Oct 2017 11:15 a.m. PST

G'Day Gents,

Has anyone ever seen a 28mm figure that could represent the 16e régiments de chasseurs…up to 1811…?

Quelques régiments de chasseurs, comme le 16e, ont porté pendant quelque temps des plaques de shako rayonnantes, probablement inspirées de celle des lanciers polonais de la Garde.

Best Regards
Art

Cuirassier16 Oct 2017 8:38 p.m. PST

This thread caught my attention and I tried to find some stuff related to the Chasseurs a Cheval. Hope some of you guys find these helpful/useful.

Habit d'officier supérieur, 1er Régiment de Chasseurs à Cheval

picture

picture


Shako d'officier supérieur, 1er Régiment de Chasseurs à Cheval

picture

picture


Tenue de campagne de brigadier du 8e Régiment de Chasseurs à Cheval

picture


Habit à la Kinski de trompette de chasseur à cheval

picture

picture


Shako d'officier supérieur, 5e Régiment de Chasseurs à Cheval

picture

picture


THE IMAGES BELOW ARE VERY LARGE. RIGHT-CLICK ON THE IMAGES, COPY AND PASTE THE URL/ADDRESS OF THE PHOTOS, THEN CLICK ON THE IMAGES TO ENLARGE THEM.

PORTRAIT D'UN SOUS-LIEUTENANT DU 4ème RÉGIMENT DE CHASSEURS À CHEVAL, PREMIER EMPIRE, 1804-1812

picture

picture


PORTRAIT MINIATURE OFFICIER DU 4ème ou 6ème RÉGIMENT DE CHASSEUR À CHEVAL

picture


PORTRAIT MINIATURE SUR IVOIRE D'UN CAPITAINE DU 15ème RÉGIMENT DE CHASSEURS À CHEVAL

picture


Brigadier en grande tenue de la compagnie d'Élite du 1er Régiment des Chasseurs à cheval du Roi, 1814.

picture

setsuko17 Oct 2017 3:54 a.m. PST

The green in those portraits really are very very dark greens.

Cuirassier17 Oct 2017 5:59 a.m. PST

Indeed.

One more, painted by Maurice Orange.

picture

18th Century Guy Supporting Member of TMP17 Oct 2017 3:58 p.m. PST

I agree with the earlier statement that it is hard to find Chasseur a Cheval in the mid-period uniform. I usually see the hussar like uniform or the late period one but never the mid-period.

John Miller17 Oct 2017 4:00 p.m. PST

Cuirassier: Love it all, but especially the portraits. Thanks for the photos!!! John Miller

dibble17 Oct 2017 8:21 p.m. PST

Sorry I'm a bit late to the conversation but I have these nice illustrations that may be of use.

There's always Rousselot too:

(Scroll down past the Cuirassier plate in the first link)

link

link

Paul :)

dibble17 Oct 2017 10:55 p.m. PST

Here's more on the crested Casque

Paul :)

Cuirassier18 Oct 2017 12:24 p.m. PST

Colonel Meda. He commanded the 1st Chasseurs à Cheval between 1807 and 1812 (he was killed in action on the 5th of september, 1812). Meda is wearing the uniform of Colonel of the 1st Chasseurs à Cheval in this painting.

Click on the image to enlarge it: link

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