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"CB Gneisenau" Topic


11 Posts

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612 hits since 3 Oct 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tango0104 Oct 2017 8:42 p.m. PST

From GHQ in 1/2400th

picture

Main page
link


Amicalement
Armand

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP05 Oct 2017 3:43 a.m. PST

Yes….been waiting for her to come out. Need her for my Channel dash game

Beowulf Supporting Member of TMP Fezian05 Oct 2017 9:03 a.m. PST

Welcome back, Tango!

Tango0105 Oct 2017 9:12 a.m. PST

Glad you like it my friend!. (smile)


Thanks my friend!.

Amicalement
Armand

Paul B05 Oct 2017 11:23 a.m. PST

I'd hoped they were going to do her as the planned conversion, with 6X15" guns.

JMcCarroll Inactive Member05 Oct 2017 2:24 p.m. PST

"I'd hoped they were going to do her as the planned conversion, with 6X15" guns." Just buy 3 Bismarck turrets.

goragrad06 Oct 2017 10:34 a.m. PST

Turrets look a bit off.

Aside from that she looks fairly pretty, but with the caveat that as with all of the newer GHQ 1/2400 the portholes and other details are greatly exaggerated in size.

4th Cuirassier31 Oct 2017 5:58 a.m. PST

Why have they called her a battlecruiser? The Germans classified her as a battleship.

Should Graf Spee therefore be classified as a WW1 battlecruiser? 25 knots, 6 x 11" guns?

Personal logo foxbat Supporting Member of TMP01 Nov 2017 11:19 a.m. PST

Hood was a Bqattlecruiser, and her armour was par with that of most RN Battleships… But getting back to scharnhorst and Gneisenau, their BC classification may stem from their origin as answers to the French built Dunkerques, thamselves listed as battlecruisers.

Murvihill02 Nov 2017 11:17 a.m. PST

In WW1 battle cruisers had battleship guns, armor between cruiser and battleship and cruiser speed. By WW2 battle cruisers had battleship armor, cruiser speed and guns between cruisers and battleships. Sharnhorst, Dunkerque, Alaska classes come to mind.

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP03 Nov 2017 2:14 p.m. PST

In WW1 battle cruisers had battleship guns, armor between cruiser and battleship and cruiser speed. By WW2 battle cruisers had battleship armor, cruiser speed and guns between cruisers and battleships.

In my reading of history, I do not find much from navies other than the RN that pursue the model that a battlecruiser was a ship with battleship guns, less armor, and cruiser speed.

Even in WW1, the Germans "battlecruisers" seem to be a class of sub-battleships -- ships with reasonably balanced designs, with guns and armor that are more than cruisers but less than battleships, with more speed than battleships.

I think the determining issue is the pursuit of speed. A battlecruiser was a capital ship with speed that was in the range of a cruiser. Battleships proper, of that era, were substantially slower. How the increased speed of the battlecruiser was achieved differed between nations -- whether by going full battleship armament and size but reducing the weight of armor (the British approach), or by taking a battleship style design and reducing the whole package in a scaled and balanced approach (German approach).

This latter approach seems to be the path pursued by the French with their battlecruisers (Dunkerque and Strassbourg). I don't know enough about the original design of the USN's Lexington, but the WW2 era Alaska clearly was more to the German model of battlecruiser than the British model.

The British applied the label of "Pocket Battleship" to the Graf Spee (the Deutchland class). They didn't fit the British model for a battlecruiser. The Germans never called them battlecruisers either. They called them armored cruisers.

The Japanese Kongos were British designs, and followed the British model of battlecruisers. Did the Japanese identify them with a term similar to "battlecruiser", or was that a western-applied label? I know by WW2 they were considered battleships by the USN.

By WW2 it appears that the British concept of the battlecruiser was absorbed by the concept of the fast battleship. Once you have a KGV, a Bismark or North Carolina (much less an Iowa), what room is left for a ship of battleship armament that sacrifices armor for cruiser speeds. All that was left, then, was the niche of the ship that was bigger than a cruiser but smaller than a battleship, of the model of the Dunkerques, or the Alaskas, or the (gulp) Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

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