"Which medium offers the best realism?" Topic

I have a curiosity question. I'm asking this on a minatures forum, so I'm guessing there will be some biased answers (I'm going to ask this on BGG too!)

To anyone who has played squad level WW2 tactical games, which do you think offers the best realism? I'm sure rules have a lot to do with this.

I have VERY little experience in either medium.

I played Conflict of Heroes and found it "gamey" I'm looking at other board games that have some more complexity, but I find myself wanting to play with mini's….6mm

I played Chain of Command. It's a nice set of rules, but the terrain making and setup are a PIA and I just can't do it.

However, I'd be willing to play a mini's game OR a board game that would lend itself to using mini's (Panzer 2nd Ed for example).

Love to hear what people who have tried both what their experiences are.

Thanks

Chain of Command offers the best realism of games I've played (both board and tabletop). Really models command and control well, and the Jump Off Point mechanism is a very nice way of modelling hidden deployment without having to draw maps.
A board game like ASL is super complex but not very realistic – no command and control at all!
Other board games such as Combat Commander do a better job of modelling friction.

The medium who offers the most realism is Isolde Hammersmith. But I doubt she does wargames.

Any miniatures game can be played with counters and a board. No need to actually go make all the terrain. Grab some board game images, print them out, and you have a "miniatures" game without the need for minis.

I won't get into most realistic – that discussion leads to the pit of hell. My favorites are Fireball Forward, I Ain't Been Shot Mum, and Fistful of Tows due to the mix of realistic tactics and complexity level.

Board games are easier in terms of a board that you don't have to set up. But there are some pre-printed terrain mats that could do that for you as well.
I think for 'realism' you have to have some sort of spotting mechanism. Coming under fire from an unseen enemy was often described in WW2 and snipers were hated.
Got some rules for weather in your rules? trying to identify the enemy is far more difficult in rain or snow. Not to mention moving across a muddy field.

I LOVED the visual of CoC, but setting up a 6'x6' table then having to take it down is a PIA and I will not do that again.

However, 6mm on a small 2'x2' map doesn't seem like a pain at all. Some cheap houses, roads, rivers, etc…..

I have the rules, so maybe a small investment in some cheap terrain, and handful of GHQ mini's and a map and give it a go.

"Realism" is a bit like beauty – it's in the eye of the beholder…

NUTS is man to man squad level. In NUTS you are the sqaud leader and can choose your actions. ALL the other figures, friend or foe, are controlled by the Reaction System. Basically they try and accomplish the orders they are given, but want to stay alive. If you want total control of all your figures, then pass on this one. But you did ask about realism so I'll mention NUTS. Here's a couple of links.

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I second NUTS! I really like the reaction system, your figures never stand around waiting for your activation turn. The enemy shoots at them or moves into view, stuff happens immediately -- and not always what you want them to do. Great system.

Going 6mm is what I have done. Collecting and painting minis is easy and cheap enough – it is the terrain that takes up all the darn space.

For CoC and BA I'm using CM instead of inches and it works great. For other games I go with hinches or inches depending. Fireball Forward I use hinches while IABSM I use inches since that makes the ground scale and mini scale nearly match.

Play desert games. Easy set up.

Nuts! is one of my all time favorite games.

I'm not sure about realism since I've never been in combat. However I like Nuts! because it's man to man and designed for solo play. Game play is unpredictable. I feel like I'm the guy leading my squad and not knowing what may or may not pop up behind the next tree or building, enemy squad, MG, tank, civilian or just nerves? It gets personal since you can become attached to the guys in your squad. The game feel is very much like the old Ambush! board game.

I've heard lots of good thing about Nuts, but I'm looking for something with multiple squads on the table/board

I'm looking for something with multiple squads on the table/board

IMHO the best WW2 rules at that level are Crossfire. YMMV.

I've heard lots of good thing about Nuts, but I'm looking for something with multiple squads on the table/board

Ah, when you posted about squad level I thought you were talking about a single squad, so around 10 figures a side.
Now I know you want to play at a higher level.
Crossfire is a bit different from the normal run of rules
crossfire.wargaming.info/about
As you have said there is Chain of Command and another popular set, Bolt Action (but that means buying lots of books). So I would say stick with Chain of Command. Its a good, clear set of rules and easy to pick up.

I've heard lots of good thing about Nuts, but I'm looking for something with multiple squads on the table/board.

How many squads per player? There's NUTS Big Battles for Platoon Level games. Here's some links:

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Like most things in the gaming hobby, it depends on the preference of the individual.
Some gamers like stand alone or few expansions of a board game system. The cost for a board game and the expansions are often considerably cheaper than having to buy, paint and base endless packs of miniatures and terrain.
Some like the gamey nature of systems like Heroes of Normandie or the quick play of Memnoir '44. Even some miniature rule systems are regarded as gamey.

Thanks for all the comments.

Part of my dilemma is aesthetics and laziness. Every time I see a video review of a board game and see a stack of 3 counters in one hex it's just a huge turn off for me. Then, when I think about miniatures I dread all that terrain and setup.

Maybe it's mini's and a board game setup for me then. Dunno. Have to try some things out and decide.

If setting up a 6x4 table with terrain is too much effort for you then you have chosen the wrong hobby.

Memoir '44 is a great board game. Even better when the miniatures are painted.

Northern Monkey

You are probably spot on

Another vote for Cha8n of Command.

I've heard lots of good thing about Nuts, but I'm looking for something with multiple squads on the table/board

Most of my NUTS games have a platoon per side, so usually 3-4 squads and support per side. Works fine.

My NUTS! games at conventions are platoons with added armor and proceed quite well.

You don't need to play on a 4 x 6 table.
3 x 3 or even 2 x 2 works just as well if not better. Just play on a table with plenty of cover, start with one side out of sight of the other and go from there. This saves you from wasting time moving the figures around, out of sight of each other – but not really as you can see them on the table so you're not fooling anyone – and having no action

Having played on larger tables I know most of the action occurs in the 2 to 3 foot range anyway. Again, have plenty of cover.

You'll find something that works for you.

It sounds like you need a tactical level WW2 boardgame that has map sections with the terrain already printed on them. That eliminates the need to set up terrain. You just need to find a system that you like. There are plenty of options out there.

Have a look at GMT Games "Panzer". You could use 6mm minis with it, I believe.

I would suggest having a look at Heroes of Normandy, generally you have a platoon a side with a bit of support. Apparently they're bringing out Heroes of Stalingrad later this year. It's a good fun game and the counters could easily be replaced with 15mm figures if you want to go that route.

I must admit I'm not keen on Memoir'44 which is odd because I really enjoy The Great War and C&C Napoleonic.

Thanks all

I'm going the board game route. Terrain setup and the fact that I'll have limited table space has helped with my decision. Ironically enough, I'm looking at Panzer and I MIGHT use some 6mm in those games.

"Valor & Victory" looks promising too.
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You might want to consider 3mm scale too. Check out the minis at picoarmor. Excellent stuff.

You could find a wargaming club.
Locally, you could just turn up and join in games.
No painting or whatever.
You would be limited to games people are interested in putting on, but maybe the variety would be a plus.
You also dodge the space limitations.
Eventually, you might want a specific game or side or peer pressure…..
But then you would know what you want and maybe someone who would paint stuff cheap. You could buy miniatures and get someone else to paint and base them for you.