"Why are mdf model buildings so expensive?" Topic

I was looking for new 28mm buildings and thought (my mistake of course) that mdf was the new way but I think they are very overpriced as you see how much work it is to get them presentable.

Just my humble opinion of course

I don't think they are overpriced.

It takes someone a lot of work to design the buildings, test build them, and create good instructions. You are not just paying for the materials, you are paying for the time and IP. The Internet has created the mindset that everything should be free.

Why are plastic or resin vehicle or aircraft kits so expensive when it takes so long to get them ready for the table? Why are figures so expensive when it takes so long to paint them and get them ready for the table? And so on. They aren't!

Why are rules so expensive? The author should just give away three years of development and writing. If you play a set of rules twice, it cost you less than going to see the trash spewed at you from Hollywood. If you buy the PDF and print it, that usually costs more than buying the book already printed, but rules are too expensive.

To me, the assembly, painting, etc. is part of the hobby. That is as much of the fun as the gaming itself.

I don't think they are overpriced. Some are more expensive than I am willing to pay, but I still don't think they are overpriced.

Sorry if this comes across as a rant -- it is -- but I am tired of these kinds of posts. I usually just skip over them, but this one got my goat.

I am with Surdu on this. There are some overpriced things out there (thank goodness I do not do Warhammer). But in general most are reasonably priced considering the work that goes into them and the restricted market. After all Perry figures, the best on offer in my humble opinion, are amongst the cheapest. As Cousin Jonathon would say, 'Go figure!'

they are absolutly overpriced!!! .if you think that they ae'nt really tridimensional if compared to resin items…why spend more or less same sum plus very time consuming assembly stage for something is inferior which has lees visual appeal than resin…and they also do not take well the paint..
i expect, to buy something, a price at least half than the actual one

Depends on what you mean by presentable. If you want something which is an exact replica of a building down to buttering and birds nesting in the rafters then perhaps they are. If you want something that works on a table with the minimum of effort then I would say that they are a bargain. Price depends on the manufacturer and the extra colours used. Plain mdf for the same price as 4 Ground's multi-coloured multi room efforts would be expensive for me. On the whole I think that they are a vast improvement on resin both in flexibility and weight – an important factor for those of us who have to travel to our games venues. I've never had any problems painting them with either spray or household emulsions, certainly no more issues than with resin lines. Then again, wargamers want today's technology at 1990's prices.

I find them a good value for the money for the most part, The exception being 4Grond because I prefer to finish them myself. In any event, it's a matter of what you are looking for. The best this about MDF is that you can approach them as building materials and easily customize of kit bash to get what you want. It's much harder to do this with resin.

At Christmas I bought a selection of roughly 15mm MDF buildings from the works for £3.00 GBP a piece – this makes those made specifically for wargames look somewhat pricey…

If you consider them overpriced then don't buy them.
Try scratch building…..

I don't consider them over priced especially when you consider how much work they save, even when you spend time tickling them up.

You do have to pick carefully though as some manufacturers don't seem to have quite the grasp of architecture that is needed for historical buildings. I stick to 4Ground, Warbases and Sarissa.

I use PDF printouts, on regular 20# paper, glued to 3mm thick cardboard. The cardboard is from a picture frame shop. I use a glue stick and burnish thoroughly.

I use square dowels inside to keep them straight -- avoids warping. Black edge the seams, and done.

It is not scratch-building, but it takes time and effort. But ZERO painting. They are quite strong, and they have some weight, so not easily toppled. Would not do it any other way. Cheers!

I think that they are reasonably priced considering the amount of work put into designing them and having them already painted as with 4Ground makes it easier for me.

Good value for my money.

As someone who has limited architectural skills to prepare my own plans, even more limited scratch building skills, particularly when it comes to fiddly bits like windows, and who wants something of a realistic size with interiors for skirmish gaming mdf buildings are the best. And they weigh a lot less than resin making them easier to carry round to wargames meetings.

Given their benefits I do not consider them overpriced, indeed with some suppliers such as Blotz and Warbases I consider that they are undercharging for their products.

A $20 USD 15mm pre-painted MDF building that takes me an hour to put together but saves me four hours of pre-prep and painting is value for my money.

as you see how much work it is to get them presentable.

Sounds to me like you are buying the wrong MDF buildings.

As with any wargame product, there is a huge variation in style, quality, and mechanical durability.

That said, it really depends on how much you value your own time.

e.g. Pre-painted except for 3 pieces of resin, you just build it which takes about 30 minutes, cost £25.00 GBP inc taxes (£20.83 p ex taxes)

link

How long would it take you to make that, to that standard and then multiply the hours of your time by the minimum wage – and there is your answer.

It's a very simple equation.

If you value your time at "nothing" then there is no need to ever buy anything at all.

Just another minor point: the main driver of the cost is NOT the MDF but the cutting time.

Say you want a simple box X x Y x Z" and it prices out at $10 USD, using one piece of MDF 12 x 24".

Now you design a house that uses the same amount of MDF. But now instead of cutting 4 sides and a bottom you have a kit with dozens of parts, and many of them etched with detail. Price will not be $10 USD + 10%. It will be $40. USD

This is why laser cut bases 15x15mm are more expensive by area than 3" x 3" bases.

Was going to say what Extra Crispy said:

Time = Money

The burn rate for the thick MDF used in the US and for such models in general is slow. That means the thru put of a single cutter is low. Also the laser tube does go bad, if you have only cut 100 units on that tube, you have to charge that 1% of that cost on each unit.

Also, the more cuts or etch lines on the kit, the higher the potential failure rate. It is very hard to know the failure rate in advance so you will have to cover those potential costs as well.

With tech advances and better knowledge of long term costs, the price should go down with time.

For anything offered in this hobby, if you don't like the price, don't buy it.

You know, this really is a very cheap hobby. We just insist on spending a lot of money on it.

In this particular case, Brownand, there are excellent paper buildings available, sometimes for free. Stiffen the walls, touch up the corners, and post something when you ave a real problem.

I mostly agree with the majority here – the price of these models varies, some are cheaper and it depends how much time you have available as to what you'll be willing to pay.

However I do have some sympathy with the OP – my original thought was much the same when the MDF arrived: "this is getting popular because it's cheaper than resin". So I was initially surprised that some fairly basic buildings were the same price – or more – than similar pre-painted items (e.g. the Conflix range of buildings that Javis used to make). The explanations given here go some way to explaining why my original expectation was wrong.

It's also very true that MDF has allowed some quite wonderful models to come onto the market – armoured trains, large boats etc which are (IMHO) fairly reasonably priced considering the likely limited appeal to many gamers.

I'd say – shop around and buy what you really want/really need. If it's only in MDF, and you really need it, then don't worry too much if it's a bit pricier than you thought it'd be: think about how much use you're going to get out of it.

Ignoring the discussion as to whether the prices are fair or not, you are paying for inefficiency.

Many laser-cut terrain manufacturers use small form-factor cutters, usually in the neighborhood of 3'x4' or smaller. The MDF sheets are purchased in 4'x8' sheets (typically), so first you have to cut that sheet down to size, and depending on the cutting bed and capabilities of your cutter there may or may not be some waste material associated with it. Larger form factor cutters exist, including 4x8 cutting beds, but they often cost in the mid to high 5 figure range.

Once its cut down to size, you then have to figure out how to do the cut layout for what it is you want to actually produce. Optimally, you would want to use ever mm of available space on the material for your design. In reality, a significant portion usually goes to waste as a "frame". Depending on form factor and design layout, you may end up with more offcuts here that are scrap materials that you cannot reuse. This is another advantage of a larger cutting bed. You can get better space utilization out of a 4x8 mdf sheet than you can from 2 3'x4' sheets.

After you have the layout done, you then need to do your cutting. Depending on the strength of your laser and the thickness of the material, (as well as the design of your piece) you may be able to cut 3 or 4 sheets simultaneously – however if your design features etching (as most quality kits do) you will need to cut each sheet one at a time. This can be very time consuming, especially for more detailed kits. For small form factor printers, a single kit may take 10-20 minutes to cut, during which time you may or may not be paying a machine operator to essentially stand around and do nothing.

Laser cutters also consume energy, quite a bit of it, so you have to factor in your energy costs. If you figure that most people selling mdf terrain are doing it on the side and have a regular job as well, and realize that the peak hours of energy usage (in the US) are typically 6pm-8pm, which is when people are most likely going to be operating their cutters, and also the time during which your usage costs are highest, then the energy costs are not insignificant. On top of that, lasers are also extremely inefficient and lose a lot of energy to heat, so you also have to figure the costs of additional cooling capacity and ventilation (which usually means air conditioning) which add a hefty amount on to that as well.

etc. etc. etc.

I have a hobby laser cutter and is surprising that it is harder to use than a 3D printer, the material varies quite a lot so you have to do a number of cuts to set up for a material. On profession a l noted that it was hard and expensive to get repeatable material. I use cheap ebay stuff do its not easy to get repeatability.

To be honest if you want a number of buildings it may be cheaper to buy files in a kick starter, as far as I know most of the do not fail as print files for building is not a technical challenge just a time issue. Then print your own. A £300.00 GBP printer is now adequate, material is very cheap less than £20.00 GBP @ kg which makes lots. If you want more than 10 buildings it's probably cost effective, but the printer will take some hours per building. Plus you get an option often to customise.

Good Rant, Surdu2005 !

Right there with ya !

Perhaps worth a reminder that EVERYTHING in wargaming is "overpriced" if you compare it with something made for the Hobby Lobby Christmas market or something on the shelves in Toys R Us. We are a niche market. It costs as much labor to design one of our buildings and program machines to make it as for any other building of comparable detail, material and size, and that cost has to be be amortized over a tenth the production run--if we're lucky.

If you really want prices to drop, go out and recruit more wargamers.

MDF scenery varies in price like most things in the hobby. Some of the more detailed or prepainted MDF can be a little pricey on the other hand if you just want basic buildings to detail yourself you can pick up quite a bit of cheap stuff on eBay. TTcombat is my MDF supplier of choice a good middle ground between price and detail IMO.

Oh yeah: TTcombat is very good value

link

Good Stuff – always very popular at Salute.

Great value for money in my opinion. Fun to put together and paint. For folks who think they are overpriced, have a go at scratch building – there are some great you tube terrain building channels. EG Terrain Tutor , Luke Aps