"Did French allies re-paint their limbers, wagons?" Topic

Hi,

I'm working on some rules that, amongst other things, require the players to make blocks a la kriegspiel (with a few differences) for all of the units in the game. To make the board as colorful as possible I want the players to paint these the color of the artillery limbers and wagons, and not the same color as the other units in the army. So Austrian artillery blocks are yellow, not white. French blocks are green, not blue, etc. It looked really good so far.

This does run me up against the question of whether the French allies kept their artillery limbers their pre-French-hegemony color, or if they adopted green limbers and wagons as well? For instance, did the Wurtembergers switch over to green, or did they use buff throughout? Or did it vary by campaign? Personally I'd prefer more variation to less, but I'll go where history takes me.
Thanks!

I doubt allies who where established polities would change traditional colors. Client "Allies" like Poles, K. of Italy and Westphalia might be more likely to use French green.

Bavaria, württemberg, Saxony, etc. would keep their traditional colours for equipment, it is unlikley that captured equipment was re painted, like thre is a painting of Polish gunners using Prussian artillery equipment, still painted in blue

I would actually be quite surprised to learn that it was not repainted. Unless you particularly wanted to taunt a hated enemy by displaying and using against them their own captured hardware, I would have thought the guns would be pretty regularly repainted, if just to give the rank and file something to do.

Repainting would also help protect the wood from the elements, giving it a longer operational life.

As the colors used to paint gun carriages and artillery vehicles was usually a 'national' color, repainting captured pieces would solve the problem of identification on campaign and in combat and that might solve 'friendly fire' problems.

1) WHat are the blocks for?
2) Why do they have to be painted to specific colors?
CP= controlling player of the forces.
When I use blocks for fog of war they are all the same. Their identity is with a label seen only on side viewed by the owner/CP. SO if he is not paying attention, one may not know his own side's other CP's blocks to his right or left, as may at times did happen in battle, thus causing hesitation in the CP until such was revealed/ or he was able to determine ID.
The wargame becomes that of a real battle and make for an enjoyable time for the GM!

MG

Dont forget colours of the ordnance would help identify friend or foe, and as mentioned the crew were kept 'busy' and remember in a modern army you are forever painting your vehicles and keeping weapons clean etc, a Napoleonic army would have been no different.

TMP link

marshalGreg-
They're for this project, for a set of very new-fangled rules that I'm working on. It uses a combination of kriegspiel-type infantry with my 2mm figures, although any figures up to 6mm could certainly be used, in which case the blocks are placed behind the figures as unit ID markers and casualty trackers. I want the board to really pop visually, so I'm trying to make it as coloful as possible. The rules are designed to play games with entire armies with every battalion, regiment and artillery unit represented. The artillery unit markers include the number and size of the guns in the battery. When the batteries are deployed you place two miniature guns on the table in front of the block. When the battery limbers up you remove the gun models but leave the block. In these pictures my arty blocks are blue for the French, yellow of the Austrians. I like the variation that the yellow gives, so I'm going to do it for the other armies as well.

I'm very pleased with how these rules are shaping up. I've figured out how to determine what units can see on a contour map with a brief glance. This is explained to players in the rules. Its actually quite easy- there are only two steps that will tell you a units LOS in 90% of horse and musket tactical situations, and the remaining 10% can be determined with some graph paper in a minute.

Understand now!
Does that now remove the need for and sale of your magnificent limbers?
Very interesting and look forward of your updates as this plan rolls out!

MG

colours wouldn't necessary identify friend or foe, dark blue French and Prussian uniforms for example.
Crews are busy enough on campaigning – than to worry about the colour of the ordonnance – Morawski in his Wojsko Ksiestwa Warszawskiego – Artilleria – shows the Prussian pieces in Polish service well in blue.
so in case – I would leave them in the original colour and indeed this will be a good project for the future to show French gunners with Prussian and Austrian and Hannoverian guns.
I will for sure go for different colours.

+1 von W

MG-
The limbers will always be available on the website, but I wanted to try out a completely new way of building an army and playing a model war-game. In my current project you can put together battles like Wagram and Leipzig for a few dollars including the armies and the terrain. It's also portable, and creates very little mess either in making it or storing it.

Different countries painted their carriages in national colors. French allies did not always use imperial green. Even back in the 1970s and 1980s we had lists of carriage colors. Some were in the Almark books and some in the Osprey books.

Hi RudyNelson-
I found a good reference:

link

I'm definitely going with limber color now. Lots more interesting!

Guys, we've done this before, and once again I'm seeing a lot of "ought to have" or "would have." Does anyone have an actual reference--ANY actual reference--along the lines of someone mentioning "spent today repainting captured artillery" or "the guns we used against the French at Waterloo were still painted in French colors?"

Because without that, we're all just guessing.

Me? I always paint in what I believe are the national colors, but if it's captured or donated equipment, I'm guessing and I know it.

Oh. Back to Forwardmarch's original question. I don't have a lot of references to state-owned baggage vehicles, but what I have read matches the gun colors, nor have I ever seen a contemporary illustration in which the gun and limber colors didn't match. And remember guns and limbers were a matched set: you couldn't count on a limber from a different artillery pattern accepting your gun.

it is more complicated, baggage waggons could have had different colours, also French artillery could be in grey as well, at least some of the old Gribeauval designs

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and red for some French equippment and bagage waggons

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and

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I'm inclined to think you could do what you like as there's clearly nothing either way to suggest conclusively otherwise. There is good evidence some guns weren't repainted, and good reason to think some would have been.

Kevin is right. It's the bucket you have along the march that eventually keeps the wood safe-BUT ;)