"Pirate Flag for US Submarine" Topic

One of the United States' most advanced nuclear submarines returned to port in Washington state this week flying a Jolly Roger, a move steeped in maritime lore and mystery…

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I understand that the Royal Navy is allowed under its rules of engagement to intercept and engage any vessels flying the Jolly Roger in isolation.

Can anyone more knowledgeable comment?

They were resupplying the Somali Pirates. The Navy Department is strapped for cash.

They boarded, looted and sunk another ship, taking all the gold, jewels, weapons and ladies back on board their vessel and home to Washington State. Then there will be drunken feasting and revelry until the gold runs out. That is traditional.

Huh, not a broom, so no torpedoes fired. (Broom meaning a 'clean sweep' of all torpedoes hitting their targets)

Must have been some other mission, most likely screwing with the Russians in the Sea of Okhostk (or however the heck you spell that).

The Carter is one of the Special Ops boats, doing stuff like in Blind Man's Bluff. In fact, the Carter is the replacement for the old Parche, the second major covert-ops boat. First major covert-ops boat was the Halibut, due to her large hangar for Regulus missiles. Once the SSBNs took over the nuclear deterrent job, that left a sub with a very large open space to do interesting things with.

Didn't Conqueror fly a Jolly Roger returning home after sinking Belgrano?

As I recall there was a certain amount of wailing and knashing of teeth associated with that.

Yes it did fly it, I thought it was highly amusing at the time and I think Mrs T did as well.

Maybe it's a sign they had good hunting.

Dan

It's a long tradition in RN subs

Yes it did fly it

Not "it". "She"….

Well it is the Navy, you must be right as everything's a bit feminine or as camp as a row of tents. And they drive boats not ships.

All revealed here:-

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Reasons for flying the JR go beyond sinking an enemy ship and include successful deployments of special forces, and at sea rescues.

Yes, "good hunting" would be a decent description for flying the Jolly Roger on a sub.

Knowing what the Carter is fitted out for – a special-missions module making her 100ft longer than the other Seawolf-class boats – I presume the reason has something to do with ISR in some capacity. There were some rumors that the Carter has launched UAVs in the past; successful target recon flights on the Korean peninsula are impressive, but not on the same level as sinking an enemy combatant. I'm guessing something a bit riskier – loitering in DPRK waters for an extended period during a wiretap or other operation would be my guess.

Launching a UAV does mean being on the surface for a good 15-30 minutes, it's not like modern subs can crash-dive like the old WW2 boats could.

Lion – why on earth not? I'd've thought that a crash-dive would be a fairly vital ability for any sub.

I didn't know that either, I'm quite surprised they can't crash dive.

Modern subs don't spend time on the surface, we live *entirely* underwater.

The only time we're on the surface is when we're within sight of friendly land. And sometimes we will submerge even then. We usually submerged in the Straits of Juan de Fuca on the way out to sea, and had to be careful not to accidentally catch a fishing boat by the net and drag them under.

Also, remember that a WW2 sub was all of 2,400 tons submerged, and the Jimmy Carter is 12,000 tons. Even the 688/Los Angeles class was 7,500 tons, and the big Ohio-class I served on were 19,000 tons.

Takes a lot longer for the additional mass to start moving.

Thanks for that, makes sense really when you think about it. In WW2 they didn't have RADAR to detect aircraft so didn't have much warning to dive.

Umm, radar can be detected by ECM about twice the range it is effective at, so subs may not want to broadcast their position when they are on the surface by using it.

In friendly waters, you want your surface-search radar(s) on as much as possible.

You don't surface in unfriendly waters if you can avoid it.

Though we did pull a couple 'steel beach' picnics when the weather and seas were nice in the middle of the Pacific and we didn't have other obligations. A bit eerie swimming when there's 18,000ft of water under you!

But a modern submarine basically only surfaces when pulling into port. At all other times, we're completely submerged. Fresh air? Yeah, we did that sometimes, but it was usually by sticking up the snorkel mast and not running the diesel.

So if you're never on the surface in the first place, there's no need for the ability to crash dive. If we are at periscope depth, there are procedures for an Emergency Deep if a ship is going to run you over. But your ballast tanks are already full of water when you're at periscope depth, you come up to PD, not submerge to it.

"A bit eerie swimming when there's 18,000ft of water under you!"

One of the things our lily-livered captain never let us do. I think it's the one thing I really miss being able to boast about. Oh and Subic (East Coast sailor). Never made shellback or bluenose, but who cares, those are just artificial lines on a globe.