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"French elite company dragoons, colors" Topic


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490 hits since 12 Sep 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2017 9:20 a.m. PST

Would the colors on the elite companies follow their facing colors? So yellow epaulets for yellow faced regiments? or would they always be red? Same with the cloth on top of the bear skin? facing color or red?

Camcleod12 Sep 2017 9:36 a.m. PST

Always red epaulettes.
And I believe red for the top bearskin patch.

Edit.
Just checked some pics on-line. Bearskin patch IS red for yellow and orange faced regts.

Le Breton12 Sep 2017 10:15 a.m. PST

Epaulettes usually (and by regulation) red. Sometimes white ….

brigadier 19e dragons (1808)

picture

trompette (so, maybe not the troopers) 7e dragons (1808)

picture

dragon 5e dragons (1811)

picture

I would not be surprised if some of the French regiments, esepcially those in Italy, used metal scaled ones like the Italian dragoons. Maybe just sapeurs. Maybe all compagnie d'élite.

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP12 Sep 2017 10:28 a.m. PST

Interesting it happened to be the 19th I'm painting. So mabye paint them white? It's for the 1805-1807 period

Le Breton12 Sep 2017 12:25 p.m. PST

They are your models, so as always you can command them into any uniforme.

But, in this case we have an image from Boisellier. Not contemporary, but known for trying to find period evidence for how units really looked.
I think the white looks great (including the white plume and cords) and I would paint them that way, if they were mine.

Some more images ….

1804-1805
link

picture

1810-1811

picture

picture

1813-1814

picture

dibble12 Sep 2017 5:44 p.m. PST

Scroll down to second set in this link:

link

And these:

link

link

And if you scroll through a number of pages starting here, you will find all the Rousselot plate sets including the information to each plate. And also his six plate sets which include the rare Mamelukes of the Guard.

link

Paul :)

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2017 9:47 a.m. PST

Initially, French dragoon elite companies wore the bearskin with the red plume, with the exception of those regiments who might wear a different plume and epaulet color.

The 5th Dragoons, which had been the senior dragoon regiment in the old Royal Army, and had been the Regiment Colonel-General, had won the right to wear white epaulets and plumes, as well as white aguillettes in full dress. They retained those distinctions through both the Revolution and Empire.

Bearskins had been 'abolished' during 1810-1812, but many regiments retained theirs because of the 'wearing out' period as well as the regimental commanders' prerogative.

Those regiments that did not retain bearskins for their elite companies wore the usual helmet but with a scarlet plume.

Trumpeters for dragoon elite companies along with reversed colors for the uniform, sometimes also ignored, light or sky blue being used because of the good quality of the available dyes. Elite company trumpeters might wear the bearskin, or might also wear a colpack, both of either black or white fur. Epaulets might also be different than the rest of the company either red or white.

Regimental sappers, who also wore the bearskin, might have brass shoulder scales attached to the epaulets.

Two excellent references for dragoon elite companies are Plates 86 and 96 from Rousselot. Three others illustrate the rest of the dragoon subjects: Plate 25 covers dragoon officers, plate 20 covers sapeurs and trumpets, and plate 7 covers the 'ordinary' companies of the regiments.

Garde de Paris14 Sep 2017 6:49 a.m. PST

Hello, Gunfreak!

I am looking at Commadant Bucquoy's illustrations of the 19eme Dragons, and see illustration 27 with a centre company dragon with white tall plume on helmet, and white "hairbrush" epaulettes! It looks like the whole regiment wore these epaulettes at that time – 1807. No sheepskin over the saddle.

29 is a sapeur, 1808, with bearskin, beard, white cords, white plume. REd bag with white cross. white epaulettes.
No sheepskin over the saddle.

30 is a corporal ("brigadier") 1808 of elites, same bearskin as the sapeur. white epaulettes, no sheepskin over saddle cloth.

To confuse matters, the Rousselot illustration that Dibble provided above is of a centre company dragon of the 19th, 1808, with white plume on helmet; white epaulettes, but…

He has lambswool, edged with yellow "sawteeth," over the saddle cloth, and he also wears his sword waist belt across his right shoulder. I believe that was common to the division to which the 19th belongs.

It seems to depend on the dragoon figures you are painting.

Years ago I used a Stadden 30mm Guard horse grenadier figure to do the elite of the 19th – needed conversion to be sure – epoxy epaulettes in particular; and a Stadden 30mm Empress Dragoon figure to do a centre company man. Again, conversion needed. I wanted to do 3 of each to represent a squadron in Spain at 1:20. Never got the other 4 figures!

GdeP

Gunfreak Supporting Member of TMP14 Sep 2017 7:14 a.m. PST

My dragoons gave sheep skins over the saddle cloth(perry miniatures)

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP14 Sep 2017 7:42 a.m. PST

GdeP,

Bucquoy is excellent and handy to have around, as are the Knotel volumes put together from Col Elting's collection.

Garde de Paris14 Sep 2017 10:03 a.m. PST

Hello, Gunfreak,

I'd just go ahead with the lambswool, but also would be sure the add fringed epaulettes! Too unique to omit!

A great regiment!

GdeP

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