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"French Guard tirailleurs plume red or red/white combo?" Topic

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728 hits since 12 Sep 2017
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God wills it Inactive Member12 Sep 2017 8:02 a.m. PST

All the sources I have show them both as 100% red or 2/3rds white with a red tip. And thats for the same time period.. 1809-13.

2/3rds White base with red tip looks pretty but want to make them as correct as possible.

Garde de Paris12 Sep 2017 3:35 p.m. PST

Years ago, I used to research Knotel, and Lienhart & Humbert for Naopleonic uniforms.

I was told that Lienhart & H were not all that reliable, but recall they suggested the 1st Tirailleur/Grenadiers had a plume top half scarlet, bottom half white.

The 2nd and 3rd regiments were solid scarlet plumes.

the 4th, 5th, and 6th had discs or "lentils" on the shakos, not plumes.

Let's see if others have more to offer.

L&H also showed the guard Voltigeurs with top half of plume scarlet, bottom half green. I always thought they would have been green with yellow tip.


dibble12 Sep 2017 6:33 p.m. PST

Easy enough to find. Look through these.


And these from me.

Aaron Martinet:

Paul :)

von Winterfeldt13 Sep 2017 5:46 a.m. PST

Indeed, I would not trust Herbert Knötel, nor Lienhard and Humbert – Vernet – the above source printed a lot of versions of an identical template coloured in a veriation of schemes, for more see Guy Dempsey's : Napoleon's Army 1807 – 1814.

about the Tirailleurs – Grenadiers – according to an imperial decret 10th of Mai, 1809

Le shako sera surmonté d'un plument rouge pour les tirailleurs – grenadiers

signed by Napoléon himself

then we have the conscrits – grenadiers – which later in 1810 become 3e and 4e régiments de tirailleurs – in 1809 their plume was – red.

And the

Flanqueur – grenadiers which were formed in 1811 – they had no plume.

Weiland (contemporary source) shows and officer of the Tirailleur grenadiers with an entirely red plume
However :

In an article in Uniformes Nr. 88 / 1985 – Rousselot (secondary source) offers the option of the two coloured plumes.

His aruments, according to le tableau général des dépenses in 1809 – they alos got pompoms, which according to Marco de St. Hilaires work about the Guard (secondary source) was red over white for the first regiment and the other way round for the second.
Now when the plume was worn, the pom poms weren't that is either shako with plumes or shako with pom poms.

Rousselot seems to extrapolate from the pompoms – to the plumes and therefore – surprise surprise offers a

red over white plume for the first regiment
and a
white over red plume for the second regiment.

Now that leaves the question ot what colours did they later regiments – 3 and 4 did wear, they should have had red plumes (at least according to regulations).

Hopefully this is not too confusing.

Conclusion : Vernet shows this two coloured plume, for a Tirailleur (Grenadier) – and for a Grenadier Conscrits Tirailleur entirely red.

Weiland shows entirely red for an officer of the Tirailleur Grenadiers.

The imperial decret says red.

So God wills it – it will be your choice in the end ;-)).

von Winterfeldt13 Sep 2017 6:03 a.m. PST

also from the so called paper sodliers of Strassbourg

ERROR - no url for link

dibble13 Sep 2017 12:27 p.m. PST

Thanks for reminding me Von!




Paul :)

God wills it Inactive Member14 Sep 2017 12:36 p.m. PST

Thx very much chaps for the very informative and interesting replies, with different sources stating different colours I guess its as von Winterfeldt says… our choice.

I think fully red feels more correct but red over white would look rather effective…

Ah decisions… decision… ive always preferred historical over fantasy because what colour to paint is usually not a concern so dont waste loads of time worrying about colour combinations.

von Winterfeldt14 Sep 2017 11:17 p.m. PST

the two coloured plume has strong support, Vernet and even Berka shows it, so it is entirely plausible – chose whatever you like best – nobody could complain about lack of research – sometimes – or more often than sometimes, there are choices to be made, after some deliberation.

God wills it Inactive Member15 Sep 2017 11:05 a.m. PST

Ok, 2 tone it is, plus its the prettier option.

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