"How ethnically diverse was Roman Britain?" Topic

"Earlier this month, a BBC cartoon depicting a high-ranking black soldier in Roman Britain caused controversy on social media. While Mary Beard, a professor of Classics at Cambridge University, proclaimed the image to be an "accurate" representation of Roman diversity, others criticised the cartoonist for "rewriting history". So, how accurate is the cartoon in its portrayal of a black soldier? History Extra spoke to Dr Hella Eckardt, who has led a research project into Roman migration…"
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Amicalement
Armand

The nobly "diverse" Roman Empire had a slave economy. Tear down the statue of Constantine at York.

Numidian legionary who demobbed and settled in Britain are the chief suspects behind the fact that British families with 500 years of all white genealogical records can be anything up to 30% African when a DNA test is carried out.

Robert

Constantine's statue was not erected to intimidate British celts. Research is driven by opinion and speculation based on current evidence. Based on the evidence in the article, the cartoon is speculative but not implausible. Hopefully will encourage more research in this fascinating area.

I would take all genealogical DNA testing with a pinch of salt.

I felt the cartoon, whilst not completely impossible, was highly improbable and therefore misleading. There is the Roman province of Africa, and then there is the continent of Africa, and they are not quite the same thing.

Wouldn't most romanised Africans be north Africans of Numidian or Moorish stock so basically Mediterranean in looks?

Race, as a relevant social construct, was a late comer in European ideologies. Religion, social class, manner of speech, were more important. The improbability of a Roman from African ascent occupying a position of power in the Roman Army or in Roman administration would be because the relative scarcity of Freedmen from that origin, who could have taken advantage of the patronage networks operating in the Roman Empire. Patronage was the most single important thing in the cursus honorum for New Men, in Ancient Rome. Therefore, we would need a Freedmen or his son being African, who would have been clients of a Roman with the contacts necessary to grant for him an officer rank in a Legion or in a posh Auxiliary unit. It is not unthinkable, just uncommon.

Jack Burton- Thank you for bringing Blue Fez comments into this thread. It was absolutely necessary.

Basileus +1

I think the chance of a negroid Roman officer as depicted in the cartoon has about a 0% chance of being accurate.

The Romans didn't give a fig about skin colour – what mattered was Roman citizenship

That being said when your transport method is galleys and walking, Africa is a long way from Britain so it seems less likely that anyone will get there – but at least some of the auxilla cohorts in the Roman Army of Britain were from the Med (Paulinius has a cohort of Thracian archers, for example)

They don't have to come directly from Africa, they might have started one generation earlier in Sub Saharan Africa than get to north Africa etc. Those African might have been in Spain for one or two generations, or even Rome it self. before moving to Britain.

Remember, we are talking about a black officer from sub Saharan Africa, not a native from Africa bordering on the Mediterranean. Before the rise of Islam my understanding is there was a great divide between the two and communication was minimal. No problem with a Moorish looking officer.

Antonio + 2

Amicalement
Armand

Mary Beard has made her political agenda very clear on progammes like Question Time …. #hack ….

"They were more concerned about whether a person spoke Latin well, or whether they had the right sort of social position or rank."

What a foolish statement. That is true of every group of people. If someone is a general, that's the most important thing about them, not their race, religion, sex, height, weight, or anything else.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

Once again as noted above the confusion of African with Sub-Saharan.

Not, as noted also, that the Romans particularly cared about modern concepts of race.

For a non-Roman, serve as an auxiliary, make good tents, etc. and get your citizenship and your offspring were on the track to potential advancement just as any other citizen

"Mary Beard has made her political agenda very clear on programmes like Question Time" and quite sensible she is too

Someone told me towards the end of the time Rome was in the U.K. an entire legion went missing, not sure if they meant the 9th(?) that went north or some other legion. Anyway it was originally raised in Spain where they had a high predomince of left handed people, so the legion was. Now in Scotland their is an area of people with a predominantly high ratio of left handlers also.
How true this is I have no idea, but there would of been a fair number of demobbed Legionaires given land and settled, and we know where those Legions were raised generally.
Also another point made once to me, again how true this is a matter of debate and others more knowledgeable. Is the fact the Gypsies or travelers in the U.K. and Ireland were originally Scythian types, hence the caravans, horses and constantly moving around. The caravans themselves have similar art work.
Again those two points may have no truth to them but would be interesting if they were true. Of course we had the Picts and Irish, then the celts in Wales to add into the mix, then later on Saxons obviously.

The Gypsies originated in India. The name derives from a period of their migration when they were associated with Egypt.

"The Romans didn't give a fig about skin colour"

No offense, but do you have anything to back this up? I'm curious if there's ever been a study on this sort of thing.

Black could be a sign of ill omen. From the life of Septimus Severus:-

"On another occasion, when he was returning to his nearest quarters from an inspection of the wall at Luguvallum in Britain, at a time when he had not only proved victorious but had concluded a perpetual peace, just as he was wondering what omen would present itself, an Ethiopian soldier, who was famous among buffoons and always a notable jester, met him with a garland of cypress-boughs. And when Severus in a rage ordered that the man be removed from his sight, troubled as he was by the man's ominous colour and the ominous nature of the garland, the Ethiopian by way of jest cried, it is said, "You have been all things, you have conquered all things, now, O conqueror, be a god." And when on reaching the town he wished to perform a sacrifice, in the first place, through a misunderstanding on the part of the rustic soothsayer, he was taken to the Temple of Bellona, and, in the second place, the victims provided him were black. And then, when he abandoned the sacrifice in disgust and betook himself to the Palace, through some carelessness on the part of the attendants the black victims followed him up to its very doors."

The Roman officer corps was by appointment from the Senate. If you rose through the ranks you might become a Centurion, but no higher. And even then it was very unlikely anyone but a native Roman would reach that level.

While Mary Beard, a professor of Classics at Cambridge University, proclaimed the image to be an "accurate" representation of Roman diversity,"
Is it so easy, today, to become Prof. at Cambridge ?

You are naive Italwars if you think scholars are not hostage to their own bias (like the rest of us.) In the end we are not reduced to relying on pedigree. We are entitled to see the evidence.

it's not a bias…in this case is the settling of a debt to a criminal systhem

Mary Beard has made her political agenda very clear on programmes like Question Time" and quite sensible she is too

well i saw her picts on the web .. i prefer Emilia Clarke

Roman Britain was Celtic. With a small addition of Roman military and traders. The Romans had a tendency to transfer recruits from their home province to units in other places to break the link to the civilian community they were garrisoned amongst. So Roman military forces would not be drawn from the local populace. We know of Syrian archers on Hadrian's Wall. Thracians have been mentioned already and there may have been Sarmatian Cavalry in Garrison at Ribchester. These would be a small percentage of the whole. In the later imperial or post Roman period we know of Scots Irish settlement in the west of wales but that's just more celts settling amongst the local celts.

So mainly the population was Celtic. While there may have been some non celts within the Roman forces and trading centres these would never have been a large percentage. It's not impossible that there could have been black soldiers, gladiators or traders they would have been a very small proportion of the whole population l.