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"Red square" Topic


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1,186 hits since 24 Aug 2017
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse24 Aug 2017 10:04 p.m. PST

Nice!
1/72

picture

link


Main page
link


Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP25 Aug 2017 4:05 a.m. PST

It is quite incredible. Many pictures, some closer in than this one and all worth seeing.

Inniskillings clearly and 1/72 we are told. 1/72 and he managed to do the doubled lace around cuff buttons…… see the drum painting…….notice how every blanket roll has its folds painted in

The figures are "heavily converted" but I cannot recognise their origin. Superb work

Windy Miller25 Aug 2017 4:28 a.m. PST

Jesus but that's good. Every once in a while Tango you come up with something outstanding!

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP25 Aug 2017 7:22 a.m. PST

The figures are "heavily converted" but I cannot recognise their origin

Same here. Ive had a look and not many there I recognise 100%
Photo 20.
I reckon the pair (one carrying another over his shoulders) is (pre alterations) from the Airfix French inf set and in the middle theres one (rear rank at the Level of the mounted officer) who Looks like hes one of the loading figs from the airfix Waterloo british and one or two who could also be airfix poses (Holding their muskets at the slope) but Im not 100% sure.
If they are 1/72nd then hes done some amazing conversions and the painting is…well, amazing as well.

Sir Able Brush Supporting Member of TMP25 Aug 2017 7:58 a.m. PST

That is remarkable

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse25 Aug 2017 10:45 a.m. PST

Happy you enjoyed it my friends!. (smile)


Amicalement
Armand

cavalry4725 Aug 2017 12:47 p.m. PST

Absolutely incredible, amazing attention to detail

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP25 Aug 2017 1:52 p.m. PST

Yeah…but where did the figures come from?

I would usually be the first to argue this is a Gallery topic, with nothing to discuss…but hang on….

OK, I might be wrong then, where to you find figures like this, in anything but TOTS (The One True Scale)?

Marc at work25 Aug 2017 6:24 p.m. PST

Oh that is great. And lots of fun spotting the figures definitely some Airfix in there, some Revell artillery, British First World War casualty (spread legs), the new italeri British infantry set, the HaT British peninsula set, and so forth.

But he has done a staggeringly good job. Forget 28mm – this is the scale for breathtaking one to one dioramas

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse25 Aug 2017 10:52 p.m. PST

Glad you like it too guys!. (smile)


Amicalement
Armand

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP26 Aug 2017 2:20 a.m. PST

Photo 15..top right, the guy supporting the other..Esci WWII British Soldiers..which means if hes used figs from the range of all possible sets and eras, spotting which fig was used as the base for the fig shown is virtually impossible
link
Dying/Injured horse from the Italeri AWI British Light Cavalry

Edit..photo 16 The one running stooped..definately a WWII german but which set Ive forgotten, a recent release ..Zvezda maybe and photo 20 middle..one of the dead, Airfix WWI british inf

mounted officers horse, Italeri French Imperial General Staff

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP26 Aug 2017 6:15 a.m. PST

photo 16 The one running stooped..definately a WWII german but which set Ive forgotten, a recent release ..Zvezda maybe

Not zvezda..Revell German Armoured Infantry
link

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP26 Aug 2017 6:22 a.m. PST

Photo 11..top right Hand Corner (behind the rear rank)..wounded soldier from the Airfix Waterloo British Infantry
link

ferg98126 Aug 2017 7:01 a.m. PST

Ah right I see…

*throws entire Napoleonic Collection into the Bin*

Outstanding work.

J

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP26 Aug 2017 10:07 a.m. PST

Officer with sword raised, photo 15 bottom right- Italeris British Infantry 1815.
The same fig (sword arm replaced) has been used as one of the foot artillery (directly behind the mounted officer) and another of the foot artillery is also from the same set (Hand behind his back)

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse26 Aug 2017 10:36 a.m. PST

You have a very good eye Pauls!. (smile)


Amicalement
Armand

Parzival29 Aug 2017 11:57 a.m. PST

Can't comment on the figure sources, but I'm dead sure he's stuck Sharpe and Harper inside the square, with Sharpe's arm in a sling (again).
You can't really see them well in the above photo (they're behind the colors from the viewer, with Harper somewhat visible), but other photos on the site are clearer. They're behind the side of the square with the dying horse in front of it (as opposed to the corner horses).

Windy Miller29 Aug 2017 12:18 p.m. PST

There are two Riflemen in there but neither is an officer or Serjeant. They're just Riflemen, taking shelter in the square. Though I think sheltering in the square of the 27th would be a case of leaping straight from the frying pan into the fire!

14Bore29 Aug 2017 12:51 p.m. PST

I love the dioramas that put things in perspective

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP29 Aug 2017 12:51 p.m. PST

The massive challenge must have been converting the soft plastic figures typical of the ranges described above. In the 70s I had some success with Bostick glue and pins, trying to swap limbs or heads on Airfix plastics. The enamel paint all flaked off and the joins made Victrix bayonets look sturdy.

Genius to see how this chap has revised things like the wounded seated WWI Tommy. Then the painting is just incredibly detailed.

Is this museum bound?

Lambert Supporting Member of TMP29 Aug 2017 12:56 p.m. PST

Absolutely stunning. What a great diorama.

4th Cuirassier29 Aug 2017 4:04 p.m. PST

I hate to be a c0ck but should a British square be in three ranks?

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2017 8:22 a.m. PST

It is in three ranks (?) Granted not perfect but more or less three ranks

picture

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2017 8:52 a.m. PST

No, what he meant is this correct in showing a British Square in three ranks.

The general view is four ranks, two kneeling with bayonets pointed threateningly (the front with the butt grounded and the bayonet then at about 45 degrees, the second rank with the musket at a shallower angle, nearer to horizontal, the result…a hedge of bayonets) and two behind firing. How the fourth rank managed to do that is beyond me.

By the end of the day the survivors of 27th would have made a much smaller square…… by closing their files, to fill the huge gaps, but I suspect still four ranks…….and heaven help the wounded who were no longer within the square

Marc at work30 Aug 2017 9:00 a.m. PST

4th – go and hang your head in shame for being such a nit-picker – this is as close to perfection on earth that most of us 1/72 Naps fans will ever come across grin

So pour yourself a glass of something mellow, sit back and stare at the pictures again for an hour or two…

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2017 9:18 a.m. PST

4th is right and so are you. There is no harm at all in pointing out an error…..it could be too many buttons on the cuffs even! It can only act as a source of knowledge for the rest of us…..

I could add that the colonel was not at Waterloo and, even if he had been, his two fringed epaulettes would have been gold, not silver as shown.

But equally you are right. The modelling and the painting is just incredible. I now recognise the Frenchman carrying his wounded companion……but he is….well, unrecognisable!

This is some of the best work I have ever seen on this forum. The faces and details…in 1/72, in any scale….incredible

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2017 10:37 a.m. PST

No, what he meant is this correct in showing a British Square in three ranks

Thanks..my mistake :-)

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse30 Aug 2017 10:52 a.m. PST

Marc… my good friend… I cannot be more d'accord with you!!! (smile)


Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2017 12:05 p.m. PST

At risk of putting this back to the top again, which may be the intention (and why not? It is truly remarkable).

Like most things. There are two ways of looking at this.

4th spotted an error. I also pointed out two and could have added several more.

But we'll agree the work is beyond anything we have seen here in 1/72…heck in any scale.

So let us all agree to point out detail errors in anything and praise the work. My 52nd should soon appear and, if someone wants to point out that 28mm lace was not pure white, but had black and white lines, will I be insulted????? Even less if they tell me summat I did not actually know!

Remember the forum caters for dice throwers and button counters (wargamers and obsessional modellers). I am the latter and learning so much from all this.

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP30 Aug 2017 12:19 p.m. PST

Im still trying to work out which fig was used to make each one…for example..the one laying on the ground with both Hands on his head. I recognise him but cant place him. At first I thought the top half of the wounded guy being carried from the Airfix Waterloo French line..but hes only got one Hand on his head…Bugs me not being able to place him (and a lot of the others ) :-)
The creater of the dio has done such a brilliant Job of converting.

Windy Miller30 Aug 2017 2:00 p.m. PST

Is he the one in photo 23 next to a cuirassier? Possibly Airfix WW2 German infantry – the one crouched over with his hands over his face.

As for mistakes, I think I've only seen two. The officers' lace should be gold for the 27th not silver, likewise the other ranks belts should be buff not white. There's also a random chap behind the light company with a red over white plume. I can't tell from the pictures but is he a bugler? If he is shouldn't he have a jacket in reversed colours like the drummers?

Niggles aside though this is an absolutely astounding piece of work. If it's not heading for a museum is should be – Enniskillen Castle preferably!

Pauls Bods Supporting Member of TMP31 Aug 2017 8:36 a.m. PST

Ive linked Photo 23 above. Yep the one lying to the right of the cuirassier (bottom left Corner of the pic)
The airfix WWII german it isnt. That pose has his Hands over his face. Thing is, Im sure Ive painted the fig but cant remember at all which period or set!! GRRR!

4th Cuirassier31 Aug 2017 4:45 p.m. PST

I'm wishing I hadn't said anything now.

dibble31 Aug 2017 5:50 p.m. PST

I have my doubts that the 27th would have had buff leather belts. their facing colour was light buff, which in no time at all would have been hard to distinguish between light buff and off white. I have cotemporary drawings and miniatures of buff faced regiments and though they are of officers, few show buff leather belts and those that do, show the buff as being light in shade. I would not rule out that the 52nd and 3rd having buff leather, but even with those regiments I have contemporary pictures of them depicted with white leather too.

Anyway, The diorama is excellent with very good detail. The colours 'what I can see of them' are OK but I think that maybe, the wreath and escutchion motif on both are slightly too big, a mistake that is universal with British colours within in the modelling, wargames and illustrative world.

Paul :)

Parzival02 Sep 2017 5:46 a.m. PST

For what it's worth, a historian is quoted in this article stating that the square consisted of three ranks: link
Can't comment on his accuracy or reputation; I found the article from a simple google search on the incident, as I knew little about it. But clearly some sources must state three ranks in square, so the diorama's creator is acting on available information, not simply personal conjecture.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP02 Sep 2017 8:24 a.m. PST

Which makes me glad 4th C did raise the issue.

Interesting discussion on Buff leather for 27th and evidence for squares resulted

4th Cuirassier04 Sep 2017 4:37 a.m. PST

I'm not sure about that cite. First, it's not directly attributed to the source expert, and second, the expert is a museum curator. He may have an encyclopaedic knowledge of Napoleonic tactics or he may know as much about it as a palaeontologist knows about dinosaur parenting. I am struggling a bit with how a two-rank line becomes a three-rank square, which is not to say it's impossible, just that it's not obvious.

I should add that the painting and the work on that square is terrific. The faces in particular are fabulous.

I do hope it is accurate. Otherwise I am reminded of the Alas Smith And Jones tattoo parlour sketch in which Smith, facing the camera, is just finishing having his back covered with a huge tattoo by Jones.

"Well, it's an odd request, I've never had to do this before," says Jones.
"Well, I've always been an angling freak…last week I broke the British pollock record…so I thought, 'I'll have a pair of pollocks tattooed on me back.'"
Jones looks aghast. "….pollocks?"
YouTube link

Windy Miller05 Sep 2017 10:09 a.m. PST

Most of the Duke's army at Waterloo was deployed in lines of 3 or 4 ranks anyway as there wasn't enough room to use the standard 2 deep British line. As such forming a 3 deep square wouldn't have been difficult. Indeed it would have been much easier and quicker than normal.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse05 Sep 2017 10:42 a.m. PST

That's explain why so much casualties by artillery….


Amicalement
Armand

number413 Sep 2017 2:58 p.m. PST

Three ranks or four? We've been there before ;) TMP link

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