Old Contemptibles | 24 Aug 2017 9:07 p.m. PST |
How often was this done? Should units in this period be allowed to do so? What was doctrine? I have seen players charge a unit in line with up to 4 infantry units in column. To me that is more a Napoleonic tactic. We use our own club rules for the AWI. We are considering prohibiting charges in column for infantry. |
Supercilius Maximus | 25 Aug 2017 12:03 a.m. PST |
I suspect that columns were little used in the AWI because both the armies and the individual units themselves, were too small to either require it or make it viable. I wouldn't ban them, as I'm sure if you looked closely enough there were examples, but they were usually found in assaults on defences, rather than open field actions, where pretty much everyone knew that firepower and then in with the bayonet (if you had one), was the key. Bear in mind, also, that "columns" are really just a series of lines. The closest you come to a discussion of this tactic is Phillips' memo of 1780 or 1781, in which he lists a series of formations, or combination of formations that should be considered for different situations, including one where he suggests one wing of a battalion leads an attack in open order, whilst the other follows in close order to provide some "oomph" to the assault, or a rallying point/solid reserve if it fails. |
robert piepenbrink | 25 Aug 2017 7:35 a.m. PST |
I'm pretty much in agreement with Supercilius. You don't find assault columns in the Napoleonic sense. A sub-division of an army was sometimes called a column, of course. And it is worth noting that the storming of a fortified position sometimes involved formations much deeper than they were wide, if only because men had to get through some bottleneck. See Stony Point as an example. Might not be necessary to ban the formation in field battles as long as you were very careful not to give them any unhistorical advantage from adopting it. "Yes, you can advance in column. You will have a narrower frontage. Your rear ranks can's shoot, and will not add impetus to any melee. Your drill ensure a substantial delay while you change to line formation. Now go ahead." |
21eRegt | 25 Aug 2017 7:56 a.m. PST |
The assaults on the redoubts at Yorktown started in column. Lots of men at a narrow focus point. Outside of storming fixed points I can't think of any other examples. |
historygamer | 25 Aug 2017 10:33 a.m. PST |
Since the American army grew out of English doctrine, and English doctrine was not keen on assault columns (unlike the French who were conflicted on it – see Montcalm's use of a mixed order at Quebec in 1759) – it is not surprising neither side used them for anything except assaulting fixed positions. English doctrine favored fire power then shock, but using a long line instead of a dense column. Again, see how effective the long English lines were at Quebec over the denser formations of the French. |
Supercilius Maximus | 25 Aug 2017 10:52 a.m. PST |
On the subject of French doctrine, worth mentioning that Rochambeau was deliberately chosen to lead the Expedition Particuliere because his "army" (using linear tactics and firepower) had defeated an opposing "army" (relying on columns and the bayonet) in the wargame fought by the invasion force originally earmarked to land as part of the Franco-Spanish invasion of England in 1778 |
Old Contemptibles | 25 Aug 2017 11:28 p.m. PST |
That confirms what I suspected. No charging in column. Thanks for the responses. |
Durban Gamer | 26 Aug 2017 12:08 p.m. PST |
Wouldn't French and maybe also Hessians have been trained to charge in column? Such different tactical doctrine could add interest to gaming AWI. |
historygamer | 26 Aug 2017 6:41 p.m. PST |
They did use it – when they were assaulting works, |
Old Contemptibles | 26 Aug 2017 8:16 p.m. PST |
Right, we are allowing column formations to assault defensive positions, like redoubts, works and other positions which are scenario specific. |
Royal Marine | 27 Aug 2017 3:32 a.m. PST |
I think terrain and the loose order formations meant that columns rarely had any advantage in the AWI and hence 'loose' linear was the way to fight. |
Rawdon | 27 Aug 2017 12:53 p.m. PST |
A good discussion, but I'm not sure the core question has truly been answered. Historically, it appears that column charges were only used against works, and potentially in narrow spaces. Whatever knowledge I have completely supports that position. But – should it be allowed on a game table? Does anyone know if the English drills included tactical maneuvers in column? And what about Prussian practice – von Steuben's drill of the Continentals was a simplified version of the Prussian drill. |
Early morning writer | 27 Aug 2017 9:26 p.m. PST |
I think if you add the assault of Red Bank you have all of the column events I've read about mentioned in this thread. I rather like Piepenbrink's solution at the end of his post. |
Glenn Pearce | 28 Aug 2017 7:33 a.m. PST |
Hello Rallynow! Perhaps it's time to take a closer look at the actual dynamics or artificial incentives that encourage your players to use unhistorical formations in certain situations. Take a look at the rules "Ruse de Guerre" sold by Baccus6mm. Although designed for 6mm you can use any scale. They are formation neutral. Battalion formations are assumed to have been dealt with at a level below that of the player. This pushes the players into the roles of the senior commanders on the field of battle where most players want to be. Unlike the majority of rules both commercial and home brew that force players to be commanders at all levels with lots of work and little enjoyment. Best regards, Glenn |
Old Contemptibles | 30 Aug 2017 4:42 p.m. PST |
Maybe we look to the SYW. I have played several SYW rule sets and participated in SYW games, we did Kolin last Saturday. I do not remember anyone, including myself ever, charging an infantry unit while in column. However at Kolin I did on two separate occasions charged an artillery base while in column and took them both out. The rules for this game was "Fredrick's Battles" a SYW variant of "Napoleon's Battles". Which is a brigade level game. Our AWI rules are battalion/regiment level which may account for a difference. |
historygamer | 30 Aug 2017 8:38 p.m. PST |
Wouldn't canister devastate a column? |
42flanker | 31 Aug 2017 1:46 a.m. PST |
Canister was without doubt a devastating weapon, but perhaps troops formed in depth would be more vulnerable to round shot. However, it is interesting to have seen in the video demonstrating canister fire from a ACW 12-pdr the long, eliptical pattern of the fall of shot. This suggests that multiple sub-munitions could cause as much damage to troops formed in depth as a would a heavier, single round with greater kinetic force. |
Old Contemptibles | 31 Aug 2017 11:40 a.m. PST |
In Brigade level games one artillery base just doesn't do much. I have been disappointed time and again when I was firing the gun and expected to devastate the charging column but nope. You have to mass your guns. In a regimental game like JR2 it would be absolute suicide to frontally charge a gun in column. When I charged those guns last Saturday in a brigade game neither gun got a hit on me and I charged head on. It had a clear shot at me and didn't roll that bad. |