Help support TMP

"Napoleon and Grouchy" Topic

15 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the Napoleonic Media Message Board

1,018 hits since 21 Aug 2017
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

The Membership System will be closing for maintenance in 4 minutes. Please finish anything that will involve the membership system, including membership changes or posting of messages.

Tango0121 Aug 2017 4:06 p.m. PST

If you want the book at home… (smile)



Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP22 Aug 2017 6:07 a.m. PST


Good article on the subject of Grouchy's actions

Tango0122 Aug 2017 10:47 a.m. PST



Brechtel19823 Aug 2017 10:34 a.m. PST

I would highly recommend instead Andrew Field's book on the same subject.

Tango0123 Aug 2017 11:08 a.m. PST

Thanks also Kevin!.


huevans01123 Aug 2017 1:56 p.m. PST

To hijack the thread, Field's earlier books on 1815 are available from in kindle form for under $3.00 CAD each!!!

You can't beat that price!

Brechtel19824 Aug 2017 5:55 a.m. PST

They are also highly recommended. They are excellent with a very high level of scholarship.

Digby Green Inactive Member26 Aug 2017 4:46 p.m. PST

The chances of this book or any of Paul Dawson's promised 5 books coming out on August 30th are as small as Napoleons chances of winning the 1814 campaign.

I do have two of Paul's books, and they are very well researched. I also have Andrew Fields 3 books on Waterloo.

I think Pen & Sword are a bit misleading when they say that this book (Paul Dawson's Grouchy) will be the first detailed book in English using French sources, when that was the whole basis of Andrews book.

Paul Dawson says that he visited the French archives last year and was given access to previously never viewed French documents! What were those archivists doing for the the last 200 years!

Digby Green Inactive Member26 Aug 2017 4:50 p.m. PST

According to the Book Depository, Paul's book on Ney at Quatre Bras is also coming out on the 30th August. Followed by Napoleon at Waterloo in September.

If I was the publisher, I would spread them out a bit, to gain maximum impact and allow purchasers time to save up some money.

rmcaras Supporting Member of TMP28 Aug 2017 6:07 p.m. PST

Indeed. Mr Dawson would not know who saw what when in the archives. He would have taken someone else's word for it. In any event it adds to the body of work of interpretation of events past. And that is typically a good thing.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2017 8:03 a.m. PST

Hopefully many have now read Dawson's "Napoleon and Grouchy" and I have finally finished it.

Wonder what folk thought of it.

It is easier to criticise let's face it. I do accept that it is superbly researched and it really has addressed what Grouchy did know at the time and where he actually was at any given moment on the clock. I have rarely been more convinced that there was no way, on 18th, he could have influenced the outcome a few miles West.

and yet……….

The whole book does not have one single map, despite painstaking descriptions of routes taken or missed. Villages that no longer exist are bandied about. OK, I constantly referred to other books. That is a huge omission.

The proofreading of the text is awful, but that is the publisher's fault.

The author does favour the word "debouch" which must appear on almost every single page (the record is thrice on one page). It does jar after a while. A lot actually.

Every character that is introduced then merits a biography telling us the place and date of birth and whole CV up to the Hundred Days. Might be justified….breaks up the story though

Every action is then analysed with incredibly detailed casualty lists, even though the later text suggests that every one is to be viewed with caution, as it reflects hospital inmates long after the day.

We will forgive the subtitle, as it is like so many books recently released and again not the author's fault.

God help anyone who does not already know the Waterloo story in great depth trying to follow this book. If you do, it is like the "Curate's Egg"…it is good in parts. Very good indeed in parts, but a missed opportunity

flipper Inactive Member03 Dec 2017 11:53 a.m. PST


Many people are 'visual' learners IMO military histories by default need ample 'visual' material to work it signposts what is going on.
I remember a book on the Russian 1812 campaign (well actually, nearly every one I have read!) that had constant reference to Russian towns/villages/roads which left you lost as there were so few maps to cross reference the text against.
I suppose paying a third party to produce said maps is out of the remit of many of these works shame.

Tango0103 Dec 2017 3:04 p.m. PST

Thanks Deadhead… (smile)


Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2017 3:10 p.m. PST

Really appreciate that feedback.

I have been very hard on what is potentially a great book.

But, without maps, it is incomprehensible. This is not 1812 over many many hundreds of miles……Worse. It is over small villages on no modern maps.

I can live with the terrible translations….and the extent of "debouching" that went on (that is something you can only appreciate by reading this text)

This is a professional historian (whilst I will stick to taking out tonsils) very convincingly telling us that Grouchy has been given a hard time. But did he (The Author not M le Marechal) not get a chance to read the final draft?

Let me leave it there….(Grin)

MaggieC7003 Dec 2017 4:23 p.m. PST

Deadhead, you are indeed a gentleman with regard to your valid criticisms. Although I don't usually do Waterloo, your assessment is excellent.

On the other hand, I am definitely from the "slash and burn" school of criticism.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.