"The Magnificent Seven - How magnificent they are!" Topic

"…We get a bunch of our favorite characters heading north beyond the Wall to execute the most atrociously stupid plan anyone could have possibly conceived. They all very nearly die, but in the end escape mostly unscathed.

I loved all the dialogue between these rugged warriors. I loved how Tormund poked and prodded at the Hound, who cursed him back with his typical snarling impatience. The Brienne exchange was laugh-out-loud funny.

Later, when it looked almost certain that Tormund would be our second casualty of the night, it's the Hound who saves him.

Gendry wins the medal for most-teased of the evening. Tormund mocks him as not very bright. Sandor accuses him of "whinging" which is pretty hilarious. Indeed, all these scraps of dialogue between the Magnificent Seven are wonderful---almost as if the vast bulk of quality writing was top-loaded into the first third of the episode.

Jon remains the nucleus. Beric tells him of death, the true enemy, who you can never defeat but must still always fight. Jorah refuses to take back Longclaw, having forfeited that right when he brought shame to House Mormont by selling slaves and going into exile.

Some of this dialogue deepens our sense of world and scope and time. Jorah telling Thoros how he saw him storm through the breach in the Iron Islands during Robert and Eddard's quashing of the Greyjoy rebellion. "I thought you were the bravest man I'd ever seen," he says. "No, just the drunkest," Thoros replies.

All the extras die, because of course they do, but only Thoros of Myr is lost among our main heroes, despite overwhelming odds and at least a couple of near death experiences. At the same time, given how silly this whole plan was I'm not sure I want any of our heroes to die executing it. Thoros's death feels cheap in some ways…

Beyond the fantastic conversations between the Magnificent Seven, this evening's spectacle was its saving grace. The dead overwhelming our lonely band… Beric with his flaming sword… The Hound wielding Gendry's hammer, crushing skull after skull. Jon Snow and Jorah back to back as the enemies swarmed around them. A hopeless battle given the lack of fire at their disposal, until…

Drogon swooping in…gouts of flame erupting through the enemy ranks, shattering the ice…the tide of battle suddenly shifting. A song of ice and fire.

The cinematography and action were all spectacular. One thing Game of Thrones has done incredibly well this season is make dragons really awesome. And I mean awesome in its true sense; awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping, epic and glorious. I'm not sure I've ever witnessed such cool dragons in any TV show or movie before…"
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What a fight! … with my fists clenched and frown … I could not wait for the arrival of Dany and the Dragons …

Really magnificent warriors the seven who are now six …

Unfortunately … everything about Arya and Sansa does not make any sense … a real waste of time …

Now we have a Dragon-Zombie … will it melt the ice wall?

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And the theme "hands" and "looks" … For when is this union to be "concrete"?

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I do not understand why Dany says she can not have more children … some explanation that I missed?

Questions:

Someone can explain to me what sense the alliance plan has with Cercei? … what is the Army that Cercei has now? … except the great fleet of the pirates … how will it contribute to the fight? …

On the other hand … Cercei ALREADY HAS A ZOMBIE as a personal guard … how will he care to see another? …

Is there an air combat between dragons in the near future? …

John?… your turn.

Amicalement
Armand

It was actually thirteen (I believe) if you add in the nameless redshirts who of course all died.

Dany is supposed to have been damaged when she lost her baby trying to bring back what's his face from the dead, so no more children. Maybe a Targaryan union trumps that, which would explain why the Targaryans have interbreed so closely.

Cersei still has most of the Lannister army (under Jamie) and the Iron Islanders (under Euron) but I believe the alliance would really be a ceasefire while the army of the dead is dealt with rather than a formal alliance with them fighting as a combined army…….rumour has it (based I believe on leaks) that Jamie will lead his army north eventually anyway.

Also on the reveal of Jon's father….

It seems that it will come out in the next series, I'm trying to avoid mentioning info from the leaked scripts, but the info is out there.

It had some script issues and again the timing of everything is very suspect and entirely plot driven, but damn was that a great episode anyway! Also the best interaction between Jon Snow and Dany yet, I truly felt that Jon believed he would rather have died than cost Dany one of her children.

This has to be the most blatant disregard of time space in the history of the show.
How far north of the Wall were they?
How far is it from Eastwatch to Dragonstone?
How fast do ravens fly?
And yet it looks like they were on that island for one night before The Hound did his "Fool of a Took!" rock toss.
Didn't Jaime remark that she would be REALLY scary if she took all 3 dragons? Is the cgi budget that tight?

Nah I think Euron's teleporting fleet is a more egregious disregard of travel time but this is right up there lol.

Dany can't have more children because of the magic Mirri etc was doing to bring Khal Drogo back from near death. "Death for death", or something like that.
My guess is that she was just a bitter old witch and lied.

Edit. Damn autocorrect. I did not type Khalid Drogo!

Time……. Gendry "runs" back to the wall, a raven flies to Dragonstone, Dany flies to the wall to find everybody on the other side, and John rides a horse back to the wall before everyone leaves all in a day, but Brienne has a long trip from Winterfel to Kings Landing. Oh yeah.

Season 1 was very good with giving a sense of how much time travel took.
Now…

Apparently time is relative according to the script at the moment….I believe its two days for Gendry to run back to wall, send a raven, Dany to fly north etc, since the drunk priest died in the night between the dead trapping them and attacking them the next day.

Although why they waited for the ice to freeze doesn't make much sense since they have the ability to create cold don't they?

Also apparently no one asked where the horse came from that Jon was doing his Aragon impression on?

Meh. Just cue the theme song for MST3K and enjoy the fantasy. "Or other science facts…"

Also the ice had presumably been frozen on that lake for ages yet cracked when the good guys walked on it and broke when the zombies walked on it, yet froze up well enough literally overnight for it to again bear the weight of all the zombies even better than before…unless this was a side effect of zombies creating cold.

Okay, just watched a segment again. Did anyone notice that after Jon fell through the ice Ravensclaw's eyes were closed, but they snapped open when we resurfaced? What does that mean?!

A guy took the time to calculate the distances with a map… including Gendry run, fly time of the ravens, Dany reaction and Fly of the Dragons… the whole thing should have taken at least 4 days … on the show … barely a day and a half?…

Another question … the Magnificen Seven fought all with weapons of Valyrian Steel? … because if the answer is no … with the amount of Zombies they killed … why the weapons of that material are needed for the Army of Humans? … seems to be that the Zombies fall equally under normal weapons …

What a waste of time Arya and Sansa…

Amicalement
Armand

On the subject of "The Succession to the Throne" … if Dany can not have children even if it couples with Jon Snow … who would be the successor to the throne? …

Amicalement
Armand

On the show? 10 minutes, with the Suicide Squad and the zombies all standing around doing nothing, surreptitiously glancing at their watches. "Is she here yet?"

You need Valyrian steel to kill a White Walker. To disassemble a wight (zombie), anything will do.

As for Danaerys being unable to have children, in a hereditary monarchy that is a nightmare situation. Is a William of Orange handy?
Not only that… George has said in interviews that Jon isn't really alive, but simply reanimated. So his blood doesn't flow…
Of course that's another minor book show deviation. Jon did indeed bleed at the Battle of the Bastards. So maybe he won't need Viagra.
But if he is indeed impotent and sterile, and Dany is sterile….
Line of Succession is itself impotent.

Which brings in Gendry. Either Dany or Jon can legitimize him. If my crackpot theory about Cersei bring Gendry's mother is true, he is a legitimate Baratheon. Then as Robert said long ago to Ned, "You have a daughter, I have a son." . Of course that might be Gendry and Arya instead of Joffrey and Sansa.

How far was Gendry's run…..longer than a marathon, in sub zero conditions?

The story seems to get confused with the zombies and the white walkers at times. You need Valyrian steel or dragonglass to kill a white walker. I'd assume to kill a zombie you need dragonglass or fire (or kill the controlling white walker) but you can put them down with ordinary weapons.

Sir Jorah at least was using dragonglass, not sure about the others.

There is no successor currently….actually none of the present kings or queens have successors I think.

I could comment on the Dany and children thing but I'd have to use info that seems to have been leaked and I'm trying to avoid doing it.

Okay, just watched a segment again. Did anyone notice that after Jon fell through the ice Ravensclaw's eyes were closed, but they snapped open when we resurfaced? What does that mean?!

I'll have to take another look at that.

Longclaw not Ravensclaw :)

I just thought of something.
Did you notice how they contrived so that Jon would NOT ride Drogon back?
They're saving his first dragon ride for something special. Not just a rescue from a lame brain commando raid.

And speaking of that ride back, I love how the cargo zombie was secured. Impale his body on a dragon's spike.

As for the succession, if there are no heirs for the Seven Kingdoms, it will probably revert to … seven kingdoms.
Now. Which major Houses have been obliterated? Tyrell. Martel. Baratheon. Tully. Possibly Lannister.
"Minor" Houses? Frey, Tarly…

This is a major upheaval, and will probably not revert to past practices.
As Dany said, "Break the wheel."

First the Wights are not Zombies but reanimated corpses. Anything will kill one provided you do enough damage to break the reanimation spell (bascially destroy by hacking/fire/crushing the body – Cold Hands sends his crows to consume reanimated Small Paul's body, this works well).

The Others (or White Walkers) are a race (maybe converted humans but perhaps really more like Dark Elves). In the books they have "magic" armor and weapons so may be an ancient alternative race – Bad Elves. They can only be killed by dragon glass or perhaps Valrayan steel (not confirmed in the books? but HBO real).

TV Jon killed one last night (also caused reanimated corpses to collapse). Needs to tell "Dany" to concentrate Dragon Fire on Others to see if that kills – my guess is no.

Theory of the three Dragon Riders now shot (or speared). At least on TV.

Time travel issues and nick of time rescues distracted a bit from an other wise fun episode. (Both Drogon/Dany and Cold Hands show up in knick of time to save TV Jon in one episode – horse by the way came from Cold Hands – it should have been a giant Elk.)

We should take a moment to morn Viserion. A noble beast cursed in name and doomed to return as his mother's bane.

And now for the grand alliance aganist evil foe – a nod to the old master but with a twist – having to ally with nasty Lannisters rather than noble Elves and Rohirrim.

Only 7 to go (but two whole books).

TomT

> I love how the cargo zombie was secured. Impale his body on a dragon's spike

That was a nice touch.

Who would have bet any money at the start of the season that the Hound would be riding a dragon?

Interesting…

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And by the way… Jon have killed two white walkers and another one fell at hands of his fat friend…

So, they were twelve at the beginning?… if this is true… only remain 9 to kill…

Amicalement
Armand

And Meera killed one in tee cave with a dragonglass spear.

First the Wights are not Zombies but reanimated corpses

Isn't that the definition of a Zombie?

So… only 8 remains?…

I was expecting Jon and Dany "encounter" in the ship… as some fellow member has mention previously…

When did this would happen?????

Amicalement
Armand

Who says there were originally and only 12?
That's only how many we see in the Baby Turning scene.
Craster bragged about having had 99 sons, and the Night King had been around for 10,000 years.
There are as many White Walkers as the story needs.

Which brings up Baby Sam. He was destined to be a White Walker. Sam rescued him with a dragonglass dagger and now Sam has a Valyrian steel sword.

Plus in his haste to leave he did grabbed the 1-2 books/scrolls that have something that can be used.

Though I wonder if he let Gilly bring that one book.

I think he gave it to Baby Sam as a coloring book.

Zombies are mindless flesh eating bodies generally caused by a desease and infectous.

Reanimated corpses are controlled by their creator, can use weapons and collapse when the creator link is broken.

TomT

Do you have examples of each in the Real Workd so we can compare and contrast?

Modern zombies caused by disease are generally a specific type of horror zombie, fast and slow. This is largely to explain zombies in a non magical genre.

Fantasy zombies are magically reanimated dead, generally by necromancer and are generally destroyed by the death of the necromancer.

The Wights aren't a unique idea from GoT, magically reanimated zombies and skeletons in fantasy have been around a long long time. Also the idea of zombies is based in the believe of magically gifted people raising the dead.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie

So yeah, Wights are Zombies, some of the really old ones are pushing into the skeleton sub group of magically raised undead, but they are by definition zombies.

Please contact your local Necromancer for further information.

Warning dealing with the undead, can lead to death, dismemberment and being risen from the dead.

(smile)

By the way… those Zombies were the "avant Garde" of the Army?… because they don't look so many and there were not Gigants Zombies with them…

And speaking about numbers… seems the North have 20.000 men under arms… Dany about 25.000 … let's said that the Lannister have another 15.000?… so the "Human Army" could be 60 to 70.000 men?… How much you consider have the Zombie King?… three times that number?…

Just curious.

Amicalement
Armand

You are way over estimating the numbers.
In the North, Glover has 500, the Knights of the Vale maybe 2000, Bear Island 60, and maybe 200 Wildlings.
Dany bought how many Unsullied? 8000?
And she has maybe 2000 Dothraki.

The human army numbers are likely way down after the years of war, maybe Dorne is the least touched at this point since nobody has invaded them yet.

Numbers of course will vary widely due to the needs of the story, for instance the Iron Islanders apparently have a surprisingly large fleet. So I assume that the islands themselves are pretty much uninhabited at this point.

As for the size of the army of the dead……how many years since the last great war?

But I remember well when Jon said the North have near to 20 thousands fighters (this season, when he visit Dany)… in the last episode Sansa speak about 20 thousand also … it include all the North forces of course…the Unsullied were 5 thousands when Dany buy them… now maybe are 4 thousands?… but the Dothraki were always 20 thousands… remember when the King was alive and they talk how they can defend on the castles but not in open country… also Dany said that number twice… about the Lannisters, when they attack the Tyrell castle Jaime said they amount 20 thousands again … maybe they lost 5 thousands in the last battle against Dany?… don't know if Cercei can pay mercenaries so fast… so I think about 15 thousands…

Not counting the Pirates or others….

Amicalement
Armand

Also… The Wildlings were 4.000 warriors in the battle of the Bastards… I don't think they lost 3.600 there!.

Amicalement
Armand

See this picture… 2000 Dothrakis?…. (smile)

I sustain my numbers… (smile)

Amicalement
Armand