"TSATF for tournament play?" Topic

I had an email this week from a gamer (and his group) asking how TSATF worked for tournaments. Is this even possible (given how anti-tournament Dad was in his own gaming)? I know of some groups who have used TSATF for campaigns but a tournament? My initial response is why? I'd like to get some feed-back from the TSATF players here.

I do recall back before the 20th anniversary edition,folks running bring and play games at the con's. Closest thing to a tournament I can think of.

When TSATF first came out back in the previous century, I was in a "tournament".
Basically, it was a free for all. 8 players could each bring one basic unit if British, 2 if Zulu.
I was the only Zulu, against 7 British.
"The enemy of my enemy…."

There are points costs for units, which is the sine qua non of tournament play, so it could be done.
Me? Scenarios all the time.

I'm with Winston, even tho' he lapsed into a f'erin' language fer a bit that I don't understand. Having played with your Dad a couple times at conventions and listening, watching how he played – for the joy and camaraderie – I can't imagine using TSATF for a tournament. But it could be done if one wanted to. Different strokes for different folks. That's one of the great things about our hobby.

What Winston mentioned sounds like the same thing I recall, not exactly a tournament, but close.

"Sine qua non" is indeed a ferrin language. Latin to be sure.

link

A sine qua non is something that is essential if you want to achieve a particular thing.

So, you need a points cost for a tournament.
And the first thing that will happen if you encourage those guys is whining and special pleading that "The Sikh Northwest Frontier List is broken and cheesy. They don't need Highlanders as Optional troops!" And so on.
And then I couldn't field all 24 figures of my Herati Regiment.

A nice reply would be "You can do whatever you want, but we neither sanction not encourage tournaments. Just have fun and run scenarios."

Why go & ruin a perfectly good game?

I'm with coopman!

Besides points costs, another sine qua non would be army lists. As far as I know they don't exist. Let's keep it that way.
Look up "Bunerwals", "Swat", "Hicks Pasha" and so on.
One can say, "Here are the points! Behave yourselves."

WRG Ancients were designed for tournaments. As was DBM, Warhammer Ancients…. etc.
TSATF was not. You can do it, and if that's your thing, have fun. Isn't that what Larry, who I never met but wish I had, would want?

If it makes Steve in the club paint Zulus, and Mike paint redcoats, and Kevin paint Fuzzies, and Jerry paint Boxers for a swerve, then that's a Good Thing. Hainna? And when Steve is tired of painting Zulus he can paint Italians and Jerry does Abyssinians and Kevin does Germans…

And let's not forget the French Foreign Legion.
All these are possible if the club wants tournaments.
Although I wouldn't, if the guys are playing TSATF with a bunch of armies, that's good, n'est ce pas?

I'm currently doing American Revolution with TSATF. That's basically Regulars vs Regulars, which is not was intended either.
And it's great!

Winston Smtih said:

A nice reply would be "You can do whatever you want, but we neither sanction not encourage tournaments. Just have fun and run scenarios."

That's close to the response I was thinking of sending. Seems you're channeling Dad, Winston. He was first and foremost about having fun while gaming.

Thanks for the input everyone.

I have run the same scenario multiple times at conventions, with the same troops, same terrain, same victory objectives and same starting positions, only the players changing -- this is not the same as a tournament, but the closest thing I could come up with. That's as far as I go. I agree with others above, it's not one of those gaming convention "tournament" type systems where folks bring their own specially built "armies" from some sanctioned Book of Points. The rules would have to change and new, firm "Army Lists" would need to be constructed before TS&TF could be a "tournament" set of rules. But is this desirable? (Not to me, others may differ.)

Actually, what piper909 describes would be a perfectly valid tournament format, even if it is different from what the ancients players use.

But I suspect that the majority of TSATF players are attracted to it for the same reasons mentioned above.

Rick

Yep, I was going to suggest something similar. Set up a one-on-one game, and have players switch sides after the first game, and come up with some sort of measure of how well each did.

"come up with some sort of measure of how well each did"

In keeping with the sprit of the game, let the players vote on "who had the most fun".

I read about The Defense of Duffer's Drift by E. D. Swinton being played as a sort of tournament. Each player (who hopefully hasn't read the book) positions his half a company on the drift and then the Boer Commando attacks. I think two platoons of British infantry and TSATF rules would be ideal for this.

Nick, That sounds like an awesome idea for a linked set of games.

I'd never even considered using TSATF for tournaments, then again I don't do tournaments of any kind. However we've done a few bring and battle games where the GM sets the scenario and people bring the needed troops from their own collections. It's a very cool and fun way to put on a game. Just like we did that one Historicon about 10 years or so ago where someone ran that huge FFL Bring & Battle game. It had all the old Colonial Wars and Jackson Gamers people in it. It was epic, yes, but not a tournament.

Cheers,
JB