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"M1 Garand Myth the ping" Topic


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©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Tango0109 Aug 2017 8:34 p.m. PST

"Lots of b.s. about the famous M1 clip ping. The enemy would automatically attack you because your M1 was empty….. This video explains and busts the myth. Get your pop corn, beer and sit down for fun…"

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Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP09 Aug 2017 9:21 p.m. PST

"Thousands of GI's died because of the M1 ping."

Just never try to correct people making that kind of statement with the right kind of smug absolute certainty because they will look at you as if you just took a big dump in their hyacinths.

They know for a fact that all nazis were superhuman, able to pick up the ping from a mile away during a heavy artillery barrage and would headshot a GI hiding behind five feet of dirt and rocks.

Skarper10 Aug 2017 2:14 a.m. PST

Seen that video and myth is utterly busted.

Even before I considered the 8 round clip thing at worst a mild inconvenience. He also busts the myth that you can't top up a half empty Garand clip.

Knowledgeable if eccentric bloke that. His youtube channel is well worth a look.

Dynaman878910 Aug 2017 4:40 a.m. PST

A little, very little, thought would show the myth is asinine to begin with. The ONLY time it could ever be a problem is if the person with the M1 had no buddies nearby.

Andy ONeill10 Aug 2017 4:56 a.m. PST

Presumably the myth of gi throwing down the stripper thingummy to decoy jerries goes with it.

Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP10 Aug 2017 8:19 a.m. PST

Bloke on the Range has made some really interesting videos, he's up there with Hickock 45 and Forgotten Weapons. Iraqiveteran8888 is also pretty interesting, although they do sometimes veer into politics, they have some great videos about old military weapons.

Marc33594 Supporting Member of TMP10 Aug 2017 8:52 a.m. PST

Andy; would guess, absent any evidence to the contrary, that many a GI DID throw/drop a spare stripper clip. My guess is this myth was accepted as fact by many a soldier and why take chances :)

I especially liked the first scene where even fumbling with the clip, as might happen in real life under the pressure of a firefight, he still managed to reload in time. Also add in the fact that, as they said, they used a concrete floor and walls which made it probably the worst possible case for the rifleman trying to suppress any such sounds.

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP10 Aug 2017 11:00 a.m. PST

When I first heard this "myth" it was not related at all to Germans in WW2. Rather, it was described as an issue that arose in Korea. In that rendition of the story it was tied directly to hard-frozen ground. It was said that the "ping" was the sound of the clip hitting the ice, which then encouraged the "red horde" to charge.

Oddly enough, I never heard a rendition decrying the ping on rocky ground, which I would have thought would be even more typical of Korea combat than ice. In the early renditions I heard / read it was always related to ice.

Only years (decades?) later did I ever hear of it as a WW2 issue.

I can see this kind of myth being more likely to come from the kind of combat in Korea. As with the Pacific theater during WW2, the enemy was considered more "alien", more mysterious, and enemy behavior was more prone to mythological stereotyping.

Also the US was confronted with all kinds of alarming initial losses, and sensational stories abounded blaming flaws in kit that had proven perfectly serviceable before but was suddenly called into question. I mean, how else could we explain the initial widespread tactical reverses? It certainly could not be blamed on being unprepared, with green forces and logistics that were inadequate to start with, and not in place and prepared for the onslaught they faced. It had to be because our bazookas were useless against their T-34s (which were somehow more immune to bazooka rounds than Panthers had been 6 years earlier?), and our rifles made a ping to alert the enemy when our soldiers were momentarily un-armed.

Does anyone else recall this story originating from Korea vs. ETO?

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP10 Aug 2017 11:24 a.m. PST

I especially liked the first scene where even fumbling with the clip, as might happen in real life under the pressure of a firefight, he still managed to reload in time.

I liked that part too.

I think this video addressed the most basic issues, but made one concession to "reality" that seems to me to be a bit out-of-place. That is the range between the combatants.

I understand their suggestion, that less than 25 yards (meters) would have put the combatants in grenade-throwing range. Granted. But why does that make it unreasonable for the combatants to be that close? Is this meant to suggest that firefights never took place at less than 25 yards? Or that once soldiers got into grenade range they stopped shooting their guns?

Of course there are limits to any such undertaking, but this myth might benefit from busting under 2 or 3 test-case scenarios, but I doubt anyone will ever be so methodical. And, quite honestly, those who cling to such myths are seldom dissuaded by reasoning with supporting evidence.

When this topic comes up in discussions I am part of, my first reaction is always on the tactical front. Anyone familiar with military history at even the most rudimentary level can understand the concept of an infantry squad. Put 8-10 guys in that same concrete range room with 7-9 Garands and a BAR, have them all select and fire on various targets independently, and see how often they all run out of ammo at the same moment.

It might be a fun issue to game out some time. Take one of the popular skirmish rule sets (I don't play at that level, so can't suggest which one), and add a rule that requires one turn / one impulse for reloading of any individual weapon, and another rule that opponents get notified whenever they are within 25 yards of a U.S. soldier armed with a Garand when that soldier needs to do his 1 turn / impulse reload.

And then also allow the U.S. player to provide bogus notifications (toss an empty against the wall while loaded) for soldiers above some level of skill/experience.

IDK maybe some rule sets even include this issue? Has anyone seen / played a game with such a rule?

I can't see it ever changing a game, other than getting some soldiers of inexperienced opponents killed for taking unwarranted risks.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

langobard Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2017 3:52 a.m. PST

I actually thought that this myth had been busted decades ago. So it is actually a tribute to the power of mythologies (of all types) that it is apparently still out there and going strong.

Dynaman878911 Aug 2017 6:18 a.m. PST

This myth gets busted every few years.

badger2211 Aug 2017 10:05 a.m. PST

I have pumped a lot of rounds through my Gerand over the years. Without sound equipment I dont think you could hear a ping over a few feet. and, who the hell would recognize it in the midst of a firefight?

I am with MK 1 I would like to know where this started

Owen

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Aug 2017 6:01 p.m. PST

I'm a WWII reenactor and I've had people ask me about it a number of times. I suppose it could have happened a few times in jungle situations (Pacific) or during night infiltrations (Korea or Pacific) where enemy soldiers creeped up to a few dozen yards from a US foxhole. Under those situations, they might hear the ping and charge forward from a very short distance. But in most combat situations I doubt that it ever happened.

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