4th Cuirassier | 07 Aug 2017 8:54 a.m. PST |
That is, if there were no horses; not if there were horses but we never figured out how to tame them. Discuss. |
Murvihill | 07 Aug 2017 9:25 a.m. PST |
1. There would be many more cows, camels and oxen used for pulling wagons. 2. Long term breeding of cows for speed would result in some pretty fast cows. 3. There would be many more recipes for cooking horse. |
Murvihill | 07 Aug 2017 9:26 a.m. PST |
Oops, cancel number three, misread the question. |
advocate | 07 Aug 2017 9:38 a.m. PST |
Slower development all round. Difficult to transport food in quantity, so smaller cities. No Mongols. |
badger22 | 07 Aug 2017 9:59 a.m. PST |
Perhaps domesticate zebras. Owen |
Dynaman8789 | 07 Aug 2017 10:00 a.m. PST |
Not a whole heck of a lot different as long as the other service animals are still around. |
John the OFM | 07 Aug 2017 10:15 a.m. PST |
There would be few oil paintings of Napoleonic Marshals on rearing oxen. |
Parzival | 07 Aug 2017 10:16 a.m. PST |
The cry "My kingdom for an ox!" just wouldn't carry the same weight, causing Shakespeare to have a flop when he needed a hit, and crashing the English theatre system, with unimaginable and devastating repercussions across literature and politics (as speechwriters wouldn't know who to crib from). |
dsfrank | 07 Aug 2017 10:22 a.m. PST |
cowboys would have really been cowboys |
Herkybird | 07 Aug 2017 10:30 a.m. PST |
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attilathepun47 | 07 Aug 2017 10:45 a.m. PST |
Christopher Marlowe, however, might be known around the world for his plaintive line, "An ass, an ass, my kingdom for an ass!" |
Deucey | 07 Aug 2017 11:10 a.m. PST |
Just look at the Aztecs and Incas! |
GildasFacit | 07 Aug 2017 11:30 a.m. PST |
I don't think I've heard a 'llama' suggestion Duecey !!! |
Historicalgamer | 07 Aug 2017 11:37 a.m. PST |
I would imagine cavalry charges would have been much slower. Unless someone had figured out how to ride a cheetah! |
Shagnasty | 07 Aug 2017 11:42 a.m. PST |
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piper909 | 07 Aug 2017 1:03 p.m. PST |
Mr. Ed would have been a bull and, gasp, Francis the Talking Mule would have never been born! |
piper909 | 07 Aug 2017 1:05 p.m. PST |
Who are the Mongols and what is a Golden Horde? |
Lambert | 07 Aug 2017 2:00 p.m. PST |
The Normans wouldn't have broken the shield wall at Hastings, and William the Bastard would have gone down in history as William the Loser. Unless the Norman knights rode cattle instead, or donkeys, or large goats. Or kangaroos. |
AussieAndy | 07 Aug 2017 2:11 p.m. PST |
I wouldn't be going to the races at Flemington on Saturday. |
Louie N | 07 Aug 2017 2:25 p.m. PST |
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gamershs | 07 Aug 2017 2:26 p.m. PST |
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Louie N | 07 Aug 2017 2:27 p.m. PST |
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Patrick R | 07 Aug 2017 3:08 p.m. PST |
Forget zebras, they don't behave like horses, can't be broken and they remain savage even when they seem trained and docile. The Belgians attempted to use them in Africa, set up a huge veterinary hospital and luxury stables to no avail. They would throw riders, bite and kick them and try to run away at every possible occasion. In one instance they tried to shoe a zebra and it went nuts, devastating the holding pen made of thick wood and iron. |
Herkybird | 07 Aug 2017 3:15 p.m. PST |
How about Zebras
Germans in East Africa 1911! |
Elenderil | 07 Aug 2017 3:19 p.m. PST |
Did I have a weird dream or did I once read that European Elk/Caribou were used as riding animals in the far North. Anyone for the Charge of the light brigade providing the Russian gunners with a fine Venison supper after the battle? |
spontoon | 07 Aug 2017 3:21 p.m. PST |
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Old Contemptibles | 07 Aug 2017 3:33 p.m. PST |
How about dog sleds with wheels? Without something to replace the horse, humanity would advance very slowly. |
42flanker | 07 Aug 2017 4:20 p.m. PST |
The elephant and camel corps would have gained greater credence, while the Plains Indians would have remained poor cousins. (Man would probably have domesticated the zebra in the end |
4th Cuirassier | 07 Aug 2017 4:32 p.m. PST |
I hadn't thought of camels. Would there have been breeding of camels suitable for temperate climes? I don't think zebras should be allowed. In a world with no horses I struggle with zebras existing. Can you ride a kangaroo? |
Cacique Caribe | 07 Aug 2017 9:50 p.m. PST |
If not equines, then it would have been camels.
Though I'm sure there would have been creative attempts at riding other animals, which would have been bred to be bigger and stronger with each generation, the way warhorses were bred. :) Dan
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GurKhan | 08 Aug 2017 1:49 a.m. PST |
I hadn't thought of camels. Would there have been breeding of camels suitable for temperate climes? You'd probably start with the Bactrian camel rather than the desert Arabian; it is already accustomed to extremes of both heat and cold, coming from "continental" climate zones in Central Asia, so should be OK in temperate areas. The problem in other regions might be that I have no idea how it copes with damp conditions. I think it's slower than the Arabian, as well. |
Patrick R | 08 Aug 2017 2:18 a.m. PST |
Zebras evolved on a continent where there were more than a few large predators, the simple flee reflex doesn't cut it in Africa and zebras learned to be mean sobs biting and kicking before going down. And a zebra kick can be nasty, they have been documented killing lions with a few well placed kicks. Here's more on the subject : YouTube link |
Cacique Caribe | 08 Aug 2017 2:22 a.m. PST |
Didn't camels originate in North America and didn't they do just fine during the Ice Ages, which is when they crossed over into Siberia? Dan |
Ottoathome | 08 Aug 2017 3:08 a.m. PST |
Pretty much like our world is today never having had the naugha or the snipe. |
Deucey | 08 Aug 2017 8:42 a.m. PST |
I guess I missed the point, I thought it was how would history be different without horses, not: "What else could we ride?" |
attilathepun47 | 08 Aug 2017 10:17 a.m. PST |
@Elenderil, You did not dream it. Reindeer can indeed be broken to ride, as well as draw Santa's sleigh. I have seen film of Sammi (Lapplanders) riding reindeer. |
Herkybird | 08 Aug 2017 10:37 a.m. PST |
I think Elephant corps would have been more popular too! |
42flanker | 08 Aug 2017 11:56 a.m. PST |
I guess I missed the point, I thought it was how would history be different without horses, not: "What else could we ride?" But isnt that the point? Man clearly saw a use for beasts of burden and draught. Animals to ride is the next step. if horses weren't available then He, as we, would cast his eye about for something else. If the question had been, "What if man had not been able to domesticate animals for his transport requirements ?," well, that's a different discussion. Would he still be able to herd animals for food? Essentially, would we not be saying, "What if man had remained at the semi-nomadic stage of development, hunting and foraging for sustenance? |
Ottoathome | 08 Aug 2017 2:58 p.m. PST |
Dear Deucey. you over-estimate gamers. You took away one of their toys, they want them back. The question is also domestication. Many species, horses not the least are products of domestication which is a conscious breeding effort -- an intervention by man in the specific genetics of the animals. All "domesticated" animals show this. 42 Flanker has the right idea as well. |
goragrad | 08 Aug 2017 9:53 p.m. PST |
Without horses history would not have seen a drastic change. Cattle were domesticated early on and would have been available as riding animals instead. In fact cattle (and yaks –
) have been used as riding animals in place of or as a supplement to horses. While cattle are in general slower, had they been the only available alternative they would have had seen breeding efforts to produce speedier versions. Picture a squadron mounted on these hitting a formation of infantry -
As I recall, there was something on one of the documentaries about a difference in grazing patterns between cattle based steppe tribes and horse based as leading to different migrations and invasions due to climate. Could have led to a different timing for those events, but the overall pattern would have been much the same. |
Lion in the Stars | 08 Aug 2017 10:31 p.m. PST |
@Herkybird: Pretty sure that German is riding a Zorse (zebra/horse cross, like how a horse/donkey cross is a mule). My money would be on camel riders in most of Asia, Aurochs riders in Europe. No clue how that fight would have worked, when the Golden Horde's Camelry ran into the Aurochs Knights of Poland. |
boy wundyr x | 09 Aug 2017 10:23 a.m. PST |
Don't forget Canada's supply of moose. |
Deucey | 12 Aug 2017 8:13 a.m. PST |
The Aztec Empire was a highly advanced civilization without domesticated animals. |
42flanker | 12 Aug 2017 10:16 a.m. PST |
Their options were fairly limited. |
Cacique Caribe | 12 Aug 2017 3:50 p.m. PST |
Can you imagine a loud yappy Chihuahua bred to be the size of a horse? Dan
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Legion 4 | 13 Aug 2017 8:06 a.m. PST |
The Aztec Empire was a highly advanced civilization without domesticated animals.
But … they were conquered by a much higher advanced civilization with domesticated animals, i.e. horses … Just say'n ! |
42flanker | 13 Aug 2017 2:11 p.m. PST |
Do you think the steel swords and firearms helped a bit? |
ced1106 | 13 Aug 2017 9:16 p.m. PST |
Search on "when did japan have horses". Interesting stuff. |
Whatisitgood4atwork | 13 Aug 2017 9:17 p.m. PST |
It would have taken ages to breed goats big enough to first pull chariots, and then to ride. After that, similar. |
Whatisitgood4atwork | 13 Aug 2017 9:24 p.m. PST |
Apologies for the language. I tried to find the image without a caption. |