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"HMGS BOD Election 2018 Announcement" Topic


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GunnerGaridel Inactive Member30 Jul 2017 3:24 p.m. PST

Greetings, All:

I will be running for the HMGS BOD in 2018 and my platform is very simple – ONE item:

"I want to return one convention to Fredericksburg, VA so HMGS will be geographically diverse".

Dudley Garidel

cavcrazy30 Jul 2017 4:01 p.m. PST

If you want it to be truly diverse, it should be somewhere different every time, that way people from all over the country will have a chance to go.

historygamer30 Jul 2017 4:27 p.m. PST

Would never vote for that platform in a million years. The other cons are too small to make that financial viable, and as former treasurer you should know that. The numbers just don't add up. Hcon attendance and dealers took a nose dive while there.

I'm not against finding another venue, but Fredericksburg is not the answer, and we already know that.

Dynaman878930 Jul 2017 5:18 p.m. PST

> The other cons are too small to make that financial viable

Hcon itself was too small to be financially viable at that location.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2017 5:22 p.m. PST

Bill, can he say "d____e" on this site? I get enough language like that on the political and educational feeds. I don't need to come to TMP and hear those words!

Ceterman Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2017 5:37 p.m. PST

You got my vote. I don't care which one. And it does not have to be F-burg. But still, you would get my vote.

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2017 5:39 p.m. PST

Greetings, All:

I will be running for the HMGS BOD in 2018 and my platform is very simple ONE item:

"I want to return one convention to Fredericksburg, VA so HMGS will be geographically diverse".

Dudley Garidel

Didn't you already try that? How did your last election results turn out?

In the interest of trying to take you seriously…. can you provide the numbers so we can see the profitability and feasibility please?

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2017 5:52 p.m. PST

You get My vote. VA or PA are pretty much the same distance from Denver,CO

TSD101 Inactive Member30 Jul 2017 6:49 p.m. PST

That would be a deal breaker for me and my group for Fall In or Cold Wars. We made the drive for a 3 day convention (Sunday isn't a real day and you all know it) but we won't do it for a smaller 2 day convention.

But hey, best of luck.

Milhouse30 Jul 2017 6:51 p.m. PST

Put Fall In back in Gettysburg .

Ottoathome30 Jul 2017 7:26 p.m. PST

Dear TheKing30

Thank you for pointing that out. What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

Tell me Dudley why don't you organize a new convention all on your own.

Rangers Lead the Way30 Jul 2017 11:11 p.m. PST

What no free corn dogs???????

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 1:06 a.m. PST

I like to see historicon at a variety of locations.

M1Fanboy31 Jul 2017 4:13 a.m. PST

You have my vote, Dudley.

demiurgex31 Jul 2017 5:30 a.m. PST

Add to the platform that you are returning one of the cons to the home of HMGS – which after all was started by groups in No VA and MD.

I've been long a proponnent of having one in NY, one in PA, and one in VA. Which ones are immaterial to me.

23rdFusilier Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 6:12 a.m. PST

I am confused over why the passionate response to moving one of the three HMGS conventions to Virginia or further south? Now someone is running for the board and their sole platform is "I want to return one convention to Fredericksburg, VA so HMGS will be geographically diverse".

The "south" has at least three "world class" miniature conventions I know of. There is the Williamsburg muster which is outstanding. Hurricon which is in Orlando and which is excellent and has a great location. Finally in North Carolina Southern Front which really is as good as any convention including the HMGS big three. All are first class. So why the passionate need to move something else down there? I ask as I truly do not understand this and am curious why this has has gone on and generates the strong feelings it has.

By way of honesty I am not a member of HMGS. I have been a long timea past member, but I feel HMGS has lost it's way from promoting historical miniature gaming to becoming something for everyone so I will never rejoined thus will not be voting. I go to one wargame convention, Cold WARS which I look forward to all year and still greatly enjoy.

demiurgex31 Jul 2017 6:31 a.m. PST

As much as I like Williamsburg Muster, it's not in the same ballpark as the main HMGS cons. Maybe it could grow to be so, but currently it's not close.

North and South is about as useful as the mason dixon line. There's really three regions on the coast, Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and South. The DC metro area, where the club formed, is in the mid-atlantic. As is PA. To say that the convention goers there should count a con that's 12 hours away as one of their local cons doesn't make a lot of sense.

So why the arguments? Probably the same reason you are making it – you admit you have interest in just one of the cons, aren't a member, and it certainly seems like you want the one con you go to to stay local from the tenor of your post.

Which is the argument for most.

That's why I'd like to see the three cons moved to different locations. We have a strong NE contingent, give them a con in their backyard. We have a strong PA contingent, don't move the cons to far from them. And there's a strong DC Metro contingent.

cleo liebl31 Jul 2017 6:41 a.m. PST

Dudley,
Sit down, keep quiet, and think about it for a moment. In this last election, you got the lowest number of votes – 125 verses 400+ for the winners.
You were on the infamous BOD that cost HMGS $80 USDK trying to move HCON to Baltimore.
Fredericksburg is hot and humid in the summer.
Why would anyone vote for you, trust you, or want to go back to that swamp again?
Yes, diversify, but don't go south in the summertime.

23rdFusilier Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 8:17 a.m. PST

Demiurgex, I can see that this issue creates bitter feelings and anger. I appreciate your response but please re-read what I wrote. I am not advocating a position either way. I did state for the record that I attended one convention a year, Cold Wars. That is all I said. I did not say I am in favor of moving it or it has to stay where it is. What I asked was why the hard feelings and anger this topic brings. I am trying to understand why this generates so much heat that one person will run for office as this his only issue.

dapeters31 Jul 2017 8:46 a.m. PST

+1 Cleo
But the next level folks did takes us to another level.

SFC Retired31 Jul 2017 9:04 a.m. PST

You have my vote Dudley,

Please put one convention in F'burg.

SFC Retired

Disco Joe31 Jul 2017 9:16 a.m. PST

Sorry Dudley but you will not be getting my vote. I have to agree with Cleo and would definitely need to see how it would be a cost benefit to go back there again.

TSD101 Inactive Member31 Jul 2017 9:20 a.m. PST

Its mind boggling that people think a smaller convention can survive in Fredericksburg when Historicon could not.

HMGS has a lot of people with their heads buried in the sand.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 9:26 a.m. PST

+2 to Cleo.

So nice to agree with Historygamer too. To all those saying:

Please put one convention in F'burg.

So which one? The biggest con couldn't make a go of it so now you want to place one of the smaller ones down to Fredericksburg? Can we renegotiate a much lower rental rate for the FCC as it is off season?

I'm not averse to having something below Pennsylvania, but make sure your option is financially viable.

historygamer31 Jul 2017 9:32 a.m. PST

So what were the attendance numbers for Hcon this year? They can get these numbers in the press of a button, but I am told often withhold them because of the results. I also know that they have a preliminary report for the BoD on attendance Sunday morning.

TSD101 Inactive Member31 Jul 2017 9:57 a.m. PST

So what were the attendance numbers for Hcon this year?

You can be assured that whatever the numbers were they will be buried and will result in a general number that doesn't break down paid attendees vs GMs vs non paying spouses/guests vs volunteers and staff.

Dynaman878931 Jul 2017 11:02 a.m. PST

> You can be assured that whatever the numbers were they will be buried and will result in a general number that doesn't break down paid attendees vs GMs vs non paying spouses/guests vs volunteers and staff.

Being the same procedure done for past Hcons this would make it a reasonable measurement in terms of performance.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 12:09 p.m. PST

This is all speculative, but if Cold Wars gets moved to the FCC, I'll just tell all my customers to whom I market Cold Wars to that I'll see them at the Gettysburg Toy Soldier show in April or the Valley Forge Model Figure show in May.

I recall that horror show of a drive down three years ago to Cold Wars in the middle of a raging blizzard, or the mass exodus out of the convention Saturday afternoon/night two years ago when word of an approaching storm spread throughout the dealer hall; no and no to that, imagine humping to VA in a blizzard, skidding down route 66 sideways as they plow the highway with a salad fork attached to a pick up truck………….nope, a total non starter.

If Fall In gets moved down there, I'll tell all my customers to whom I promote the show to I'll see them at the Hackensack toy soldier show in early November, then I'll go back to the Long Island Model Figure show later in November to pick up the lost revenue from Fall In.

Hey, I'm just one guy and Dudley you're my boy, but as I said in the other thread, adios means adios……………….

Ottoathome31 Jul 2017 3:24 p.m. PST

+2 more for Cleo who laid out the bitter truth.

Seriously Dudley. You got on this list but two days ago, and you haven't even bothered to answer any of your critics, nor acknowledge your supporters.

I you feel that strongly about it then make your own convention. I did it. It's not that hard! You don't need hardly ANY money and all you need is a few friends to help you.

Do what we at The Weekend did.

1. We got a few buddies together. W

2. We all went down to Lancaster and looked at a dozen sites.
'
3. We chose the best deal we could get.

4. We all agreed to financial wupport.

5 We started advertising, getting the word out, we all told two friends, and they told two friends and they told two friends….

6. A lot of them volunteered games.

7. We developed our model…

8. Now eight years later we're four times the attendance when we started (30) and we're going strong.

9. So just drop all the people who support you a line, I'm sure they'd be willing to work with you on it, and you're on your way.


10. Its not too hard. If a nasty, irasciable, difficult, curmudgeon like me can get one together anyone can.

Conventions need three things and these are in ascending order of importance -- money-- workers-- attendees.

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 3:52 p.m. PST

Wow Cleo. I couldn't have said it any better. Kudos to you!

Maybe Dudley has a working plan in order. Maybe he is able to stop bleeding attendees. Maybe he even has a plan to stop the "beer raids" by the convention center.

Maybe just maybe Dudley will share his plans. He could be the one person that will save the convention in FCC.

But then we look at his past performance. Ummm. Yea. Never mind.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 4:02 p.m. PST

If Dudley gets elected and moves one of the three conventions back to Fredericksburg, I hope it works out for him, the attendees and the dealers.

Based on some of the comments in this thread, I've got a different opinion of him than some of you do. As a dealer, he always treated me with respect and assisted me to the best of his abilities at Historicon.

Some of you need to slow your roll.

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 4:09 p.m. PST

Double G – I gotta disagree with you. I've seen Dudley in action – first hand. It was at a membership meeting. It was right before the Baltimore move. The more questions I asked – the more I realized that was a poorly though out plan.

Dudley lost his mind on me. He came back and apologized but I realized the more you ask questions – the more likely he is to lose his temper.

Maybe he has always treated you good. My experience is very different.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 5:06 p.m. PST

Sorry you had a bad experience with him; I never have in the six years I've known him, including a situation where a vendor decided he wanted my spot in the dealer hall and just went ahead and took it……not a good idea, or another vendor who felt entitled to just take extra tables, tables all the rest of us pay for……..again, not a good idea.

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 5:20 p.m. PST

Double G no need to be sorry. As much as I respect your opinion I've seen differently.

He's probably excellent at running the dealer hall. Relocating a convention and making it a success requires a different set of skills. I've yet to see him display those skills.

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 5:33 p.m. PST

He did a top shelf job running the dealer hall and making sure we all stayed in our lanes, which is like herding cats, but he handled every situation to the best of his abilities.

As much as having all three cons in the same location works for me as a vendor, it is not and should not be about what's best for me, or anyone else, it should be about what's best for the entire wargaming community and more to the point, the people who are paying members of HMGS.

All of this acrimony over the conventions at the end of the day does no one any good.

Would love to see Cold Wars and Historicon at the Host and Fall In back in Gettysburg, but hey, that's just me.

Fredericksburg in a shrinking economic environment with the expenses that come with it for me as a vendor is a non starter………………….but, if it happens, so be it and I wish HMGS all the best.

The Wargaming Company31 Jul 2017 5:45 p.m. PST

As much as having all three cons in the same location works for me as a vendor

Having three conventions in the same geographic area is not good for a vendor. We'll be serving the same audience over and over.

Nor is seeing the same vendors at every convention very exciting for attendees which would be why it isn't very good for vendors… bit of a circle that.

The Wargaming Company does hope that HMGS-East considers this when moving forward after 2018.

-TWC
thewargamingcompany.com

Double G Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 5:55 p.m. PST

"Having the three conventions in the same geographic area is not good for a vendor"………………..When Cold Wars and Historicon where at the Host and Fall In was in Gettysburg, that is the same geographic area, ie, PA and it worked just fine, ask the majority of the vendors who attended the three shows back in the day.

We tried moving Historicon to Fredericksburg and it did not work; again, ask the majority of the vendors who attended all three the past few years.

In 2017, the economic climate we now operate in as business owners has changed and we're never going back to the past regarding sales at conventions no matter where they land. You can run all three in the same spot, all three in different spots and it's not going to matter, if the attendees shop differently now than they did 5 years ago, it's a non starter.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 6:14 p.m. PST

Hey: I've probably kicked the BOD about as much as anyone, but they deserve a chance here. No one, on or off the Board, has said holding all the conventions at one location is a good policy. The Board said, after the New Jersey plan fell apart and with steadily lower attendance at the FCC, that they needed one year at the Host to ensure they had a venue for all three conventions and a decent rate while they made long term plans. Could we not at least wait until they do something before we call them liars?

I figure they owe the membership a plan by Cold Wars 2018--Historicon at the latest. Until then, I'm not criticizing them for a policy they say they don't have. Time enough to snipe at them if they announce that all the 2019 conventions will be at any one place.

And if they're at multiple locations in 2019, we can go back to HMGS-East's favorite hobby--telling the BOD they picked the wrong sites. (Playing with toy soldiers is second, but not a close second.)

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 7:16 p.m. PST

On the bright side, he is at least up front and open on what his political platform is, so everyone knows. Thus he is willing to take the stones and arrows you send his way.

Remember. The Host for HCon is only for (currently) 1 year. What happens if The Host decides "Thanks but no thanks!" and you are out of a spot again for 2019 H Con? Suppose they go the "Cat Show" route again?…

Let's hope some of the folks there are proactive at searching for a good spot as some folks are reactive about someones comments.

YMMV…and probably does.

WaltOHara31 Jul 2017 8:03 p.m. PST

You'd get my vote. I think we're on the path to disaster waiting for the Host to crumble in on itself.

Walt

Rangers Lead the Way31 Jul 2017 10:36 p.m. PST

I heard they are looking at Valley Forge the facility was totally refurbished. Also Secaucus is an option and Atlantic City. 5 year deals would be great so we don't have to worry.

GunnerGaridel Inactive Member01 Aug 2017 6:48 a.m. PST

There were a few comments made to which I will respond.

1. In the last BoD election, there were approximately 450 votes cast. Scott Landis received the most votes – 258. The lowest number cast for a winner was 220. That is hardly what I would call a mandate from the membership considering we have 2000+ members, and about 50% of them are below the Mason-Dixon line or west of the Alleghenies.

2. I have run the Vendor hall at FECC for our entire stay. Last year we had 67 vendors. This year we had 75 vendors. That is the highest number of vendors HCon has ever had and that number of vendors could NEVER fit into the tennis bar. There would be a waiting list for vendor spots and that will not make vendors feel very kindly towards HMGS. 9 of 10 vendors I queried this year said they preferred the FECC over Lancaster.

3. Bill Rutherford can verify the fact this year had the MOST events ever in the history of HCon. He will also say the number of events could not fit into the Host even IF the entire building was used. That means another waiting list which makes members unhappy.

4. As for Hcon attendance this year we do not have a scrubbed final count so it is not possible to tell what attendance we had.

5. While we are on the subject of attendance, consider this: every time a convention moves attendance falls. The current BoD intent could lead to HCon moving TWICE in TWO years. Think about it….

Finally – This is still [a free] America, and I am still running. We'll see where the chips fall….

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 7:23 a.m. PST

You keep dancing around the fact that attendance has declined since the convention has been @ the FCC. That's the 800lb Gorilla in the room. So far I've not seen anything from you that addresses this issue.

5. While we are on the subject of attendance, consider this: every time a convention moves attendance falls. The current BoD intent could lead to HCon moving TWICE in TWO years. Think about it…

Think about this…. attendance is declining in FCC. If we move it to the Host, at least the cost of the facility drops.

We can't keep burying our head in the sand hoping that attendance will increase. We need a solid plan. At least the current BoD is willing to do something to correct the trend.

Finally This is still [a free] America, and I am still running. We'll see where the chips fall….

We certainly will. Should be interesting.

TSD101 Inactive Member01 Aug 2017 7:43 a.m. PST

I have run the Vendor hall at FECC for our entire stay. Last year we had 67 vendors. This year we had 75 vendors. That is the highest number of vendors HCon has ever had

I wonder how many turned a profit.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 7:50 a.m. PST

Mr Garidel, TheKing30 is absolutely correct…..you did not address the main points directed at yourself.

1) Which of the HMGS conventions would you move to the FCC?

2) How would you expect the attendance to be if the numbers have dropped for the last few years?

3) Would the FCC drop it's costs to make the conventions not lose money?

In other words, what is your plan to successfully "geographically diversify" the HMGS conventions?

historygamer01 Aug 2017 8:31 a.m. PST

Yes, I'd like to hear you address the nose-diving attendance issue as well. I have a friend who lives in Alexandria and even he won't make the traffic-nightmare drive to the FECC, but he does every time to Lancaster.

I'd also like to hear you address the issue of the rising number of games and falling attendance too. Does that make sense to you that HMGS puts on more games for less people? Why is that a good thing?

thomalley01 Aug 2017 9:52 a.m. PST

i don't remember anyone on the board saying Historicon isn't making money. Just people that don't want it there anymore.

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 10:13 a.m. PST

Last year the convention lost money. Attendance is declining during the stay at FECC.

I haven't seen the number for this year.

TheKing30 Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 10:14 a.m. PST

9 of 10 vendors I queried this year said they preferred the FECC over Lancaster.

Can we see the results of this query?

BTCTerrainman Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 10:39 a.m. PST

I for one would loved Historicon at Fredericksburg. Our best shows have all occurred in Fredericksburg. It is a shame the location does not work out for everyone, but neither does Lancaster. We shall have to see how this all works out.

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