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"Dragoons and VB Lights For Saratoga From KMM" Topic

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639 hits since 25 Jul 2017
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
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nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 4:30 p.m. PST

Kings Mountain Miniatures is considering releasing Brunswicker Dragoons and Von Barner Light Infantry for Saratoga/Bennington.

The figures will be 28 mm, sculpted to match Perry in size with cast on heads. Similar to the existing KMM Highlander range.
I am in contact with Alan Marsh who has sculpted all of the KMM ranges for me.
Dragoons would be based on the Troiani painting wearing knee high gaiters. Sorry, no 22 pounds boots here!

VB Lights would also be based on campaign uniforms. No parade ground stuff.

A mold holds 16 figures cavities.
This is what I am thinking and I can really use input here.

10 Ludwig Dragoons inc Cmd. Six action poses and four Cmd.
The Cmd would consist of an Officer, a drummer, a flagbearer and an NCO.
The other 6 poses would be shooting/loading/attacking/fighting with sword/defending w/bayonet and either wounded/dead or marching.
These are flexible and I am open to suggestions as to the action poses. Please comment.

The 6 VB Lights would be perhaps 1 officer and 5 fighting poses. Same poses as the Dragoons minus the sword fighter.
Comments welcome.

I m no expert in Brunswicker uniforms so I'm asking, does Foundry or anyone make a Cmd pack from their SYW range, that you could use for the VB Lights?

Any other tips or comments please feel free.

Theses are sculpts that no one else will do. In order to make it economically feasible, I would need to sell 50 packs of 16 figures at 40 bucks each or 100 packs of 8 figures at 20 bucks each. Some combination of that.

Let me know what you think.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 4:44 p.m. PST

Glad someone is doing them.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 4:55 p.m. PST

No flag bearers for light infantry. In fact, being light infantry, I might even give them a bugler rather than a drummer.


Check above link for BLD command. It's a plate from Company of Military Historians. Perry or Foundry don't do them yet.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 5:19 p.m. PST

I sculpted my own turban for a standard Hinchliffe Grenadier drummer for mine years ago.
The flag bearer is obviously a dismounted guidon bearer. Note "special" shape of pole.

Disco Joe Inactive Member25 Jul 2017 5:35 p.m. PST

For me I wouldn't want any figures wounded, dead or marching.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 5:54 p.m. PST

Agree about wounded and dead figures. It always annoys me to have to pay for those useless figures.

As for bayonets with Dragoons, I don't know about that. Would a carbine mount a bayonet? They already have swords.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 7:15 p.m. PST

John, I am not planning on VB Light Cmd. so……
read the post again.

Bayonets on Dragoons is a good point. I'll have to check with the experts on that one.

As for wounded. I don't see how you can have a battle without casualties? And secondly and most importantly, I want them and I'm paying for this. So, one wounded it is.

I don't like marching either, but I have to think about it. I may want to do a production mold later, with multiples of certain poses in it.
Marching would be one of them.

Keep 'em coming.

FusilierDan Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 7:39 p.m. PST

Not vouching for their accuracy but Front Rank do Brunswickers link

While I have a fair amount of FR figures and like them I think the KMM Scots are excellent figures and would pick up some.

Sounds like a good mix of figures.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP25 Jul 2017 8:50 p.m. PST

Good mix of figures?
I regularly have 12 different manufacturers on my table for a game.
My record was 23 in a FIW game.

Supercilius Maximus Supporting Member of TMP26 Jul 2017 7:49 a.m. PST

1) The musketeer companies of the von Barner Light Battalion had drummers, not hornists; only the jaeger company had a hornist.

2) No standard bearers for the vBL.

3) The dragoons did not have carbines; they had muskets, or possibly musketoons, which DID take a bayonet.

Disco Joe Inactive Member26 Jul 2017 8:20 a.m. PST

Bill, if you already made a decision about having a wounded figure then why ask for our opinion? Now as to your statement as to how can you have a battle without casualties then my question is when you are setting up a game do you put the wounded figure on the table at the start of the game if he is a member of a unit that you are using in the battle or later on? Now to my way of looking at it is that by including a wounded figue would work if you are just setting up a diorama and not a gaming table. But if you are gaming a wounded figure is useless. So when I purchase figures I usually like to purchase what I need to make a particular unit and not have something that I don't need. Now I do realize that this is my opinion and does not reflect what others may or may not want or for that matter what you want. I am just explaining my thought process in it.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP26 Jul 2017 8:49 a.m. PST

I don't mind a "free" dead or wounded figure.
However, if I am buying a pack of 8 figures to make a 24 figure unit, I could potentially end up with 3 totally useless figures. I don't like them because like all gamers, I am superstitious. I don't like my unit starting out with a "casualty" before the battle starts.
If I'm paying for 8 figures but only getting 7 I can use, that's a no-sale.
If you want to throw in a wounded figure for free in a pack of 8 useful figures, that's a different matter.
I simply don't like having to pay for dead or wounded.

Disco Joe Inactive Member26 Jul 2017 9:14 a.m. PST

I agree with you on that Winston.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Jul 2017 9:23 a.m. PST

Disco, Out of 16 figures, I think I am entitled to pick one that I want.
I asked about all 16 poses, not just one. All figures that are sold in packs contain "useless figures" for somebody.
And second, I don't game as I've said here before so that doesn't enter into it.
Finally, all of my other figure lines have casualties. It has not seemed to matter to any other customers. Beside you and OFM, no one else has complained. In fact, several people have commented on cool it is to have casualties.

John, so you're telling me that you love every single figure in every pack you have ever purchased. All 30 Old Glory figures in a pack are great, right? All 6 Perry sculpts or all 36 plastics are just what you wanted, right? No unwanted poses there.
Send me a picture of all those "Hey Steve" poses that you like so much. LOL LOL

Not everyone is going to love all 16 poses. If that one pose throws you off that much, then save your money. I will understand.

Wounded/Dead aside what about the other 15 poses?

Disco Joe Inactive Member26 Jul 2017 10:41 a.m. PST

Bill, first other than the poses I stated I didn't like the other poses would be fine with me so I had already stated what I thought about those poses.
Second I didn't know that you didn't game. To me I always thought that a company that produced wargaming figures which is what I take it that your company does is someone who also games with them. That is unless there is something on your company site that says they are figures for dioramas but can be used for other purposes. Is there any statement like that on your site?
And again as you stated that there are useless figures in the packs for somebody so then if that is the case then why ask the question of what people think of what you are looking at coming out with? Just tell people that this is what you are doing period.

dBerczerk26 Jul 2017 1:04 p.m. PST

Casualty figures are important status markers if you are gaming the AWI with either the rules from "All The King's Men" or "Regimental Fire & Fury.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP26 Jul 2017 1:19 p.m. PST

Bill, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. All I'm saying is that wounded figures are useless to me. Since I already have units of both types, I'm unlikely to get more anyway.
I simply don't like being "forced" to buy useless figures. Were they sold individually, I wouldn't buy them, but would instead get a more useful figure instead.

At least the "Hey Steve" figures aren't in useless poses. But I can make do with them. It's hard to make do with Dead or wounded figures. YMMV

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP26 Jul 2017 1:24 p.m. PST

Casualty figures are important status markers if you are gaming the AWI with either the rules from "All The King's Men" or "Regimental Fire & Fury.

Important for you. Not for me. I don't play either set of rules.
Again, why should I buy figures I have no use for?

I have a dead Highlander by the way. Never finished him. Probably never will. But he was given to me, so I guess I didn't pay for him. grin

Disco Joe Inactive Member26 Jul 2017 1:46 p.m. PST

Bill, I again agree with Winston and I also am not trying to pick a fight here. You mentioned Old Glory and I know in their ACW line I never bought any of their marching pose figures. Those of course are in packs by themselves or some special units such as the Iron Brigade and one or two of the Zouave units. For me I just purchased another company's figures in the pose that I wanted. Chris from Sash and Saber could tell you the same thing about the figures that I purchase from him. In firing pose I will get and in marching pose I will not. And I really do like his figures.

FusilierDan Supporting Member of TMP26 Jul 2017 3:33 p.m. PST

My understanding here is that Bill is going to produce a pack of figures for these units mostly because he wants them and if he can get others to buy some even better as its cost effective.

Down the road he may put these in a pack of similar poses. As these are limited use units I'm happy with the first option and look forward to the release.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Jul 2017 9:02 p.m. PST

Dan is correct. I may do 75 runs, which will allow 55 packs for sale. I'm keeping 20.
If the demand is higher I'll go to 100.

I don't plan on making this a long term deal.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP27 Jul 2017 1:43 a.m. PST

And John and Joe. I asked for your opinions. I got them. I don't take offense to that. In fact I thank you for bothering.

What other poses do you want to see?

dBerczerk28 Jul 2017 6:23 a.m. PST

"Important for you. Not for me. I don't play either set of rules."

A pity. An open mind is a beautiful thing to behold.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Jul 2017 6:47 a.m. PST

Oh for pity's sake. I play what I like.
It seems that the definition of a closed mind is someone who doesn't play with toy soldiers in the manner you approve.

dBerczerk28 Jul 2017 6:53 a.m. PST

Not at all. By all means, play what you like.

I only hope I never have the misfortune to sit opposite you someday on the gaming table.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Jul 2017 7:31 p.m. PST

Good grief. That over a comment about why I do not like to be forced to purchase "wounded" figures.
Have a nice day, Sir, and the feeling is mutual. You must be a pleasant person.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP28 Jul 2017 8:27 p.m. PST

I have this Perry Grenadier officer with his arm in a sling. Sometimes a wounded soldier whom is carrying on, even though he is wounded, can enhance the unit. This wounded guy is one of my favorite figures.


Buy the way I know some players who are not superstitious including myself. Do I switch out dice every so often? Sure I do. I figure the die is out of balance. Do I carry a bag of dice around with me? Absolutely not.

dBerczerk29 Jul 2017 6:54 a.m. PST

Rallynow -- that wounded Grenadier officer is a great-looking figure. Could even serve as a replacement marker for a wounded / unhorsed mounted General who is "still in the game."

I've added that set to my "wants list" for my next order to Neal at The War Store.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP31 Jul 2017 11:44 p.m. PST

Several people have suggested ditching the Marching pose.

Opinions please?

Gnu200001 Aug 2017 1:57 a.m. PST

I build units which are either marching or in a firing line, so in this case I agree with dropping the marching pose to concentrate on shooting and reloading ones.

23rdFusilier Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 3:31 a.m. PST

I perfer marching figures in my armies. Anyone who looks at what I do knows that already. As to casualty figures, no thank you. I hope you will be selling the figures you make individually and not in packs.

BUT, you are producing the figures and you will be making the choice of what you want. Me, I am more interested in what the figures look like and what sources you used to base the uniforms on.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 4:48 a.m. PST

I think poses should be appropriate to the function of the troops.
Light infantry should primarily be in skirmish poses.
Marching poses would be fine for Grenadiers. Artillerists should be in positions servicing a gun. Etc.

Bill. Too much input will just delay the figures. grin

dBerczerk01 Aug 2017 6:41 a.m. PST

Agreed -- no need for a marching pose for dismounted dragoons or light infantry.

At least one dismounted dragoon pose advancing with drawn sword though, please.

dave001776 Inactive Member01 Aug 2017 11:48 a.m. PST

I would prefer 16 dead figures to be honest.

23rdFusilier Supporting Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 5:57 p.m. PST

I am sure which ever ones you do will be well done. I know I will be buying a few.

nevinsrip Sponsoring Member of TMP01 Aug 2017 7:44 p.m. PST

Do you want 10 Drgoons and 6 VB ? Or 8 and 8?

List the poses you want for each, if you have time.

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