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"France Going To Cut Down On National Defense NOW?" Topic

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Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2017 8:26 p.m. PST

Isn't this an interesting development:


Does this mean that France has never been safer than right now?


Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP19 Jul 2017 9:06 p.m. PST

Wait. I didn't even get to read it!


Personal logo Patrick R Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2017 3:24 a.m. PST

The French have a relatively "old" military. You can easily tell this by watching the 14th of July défilé. Many, from NCO's to mid-level officers are 40-something. You'll notice that many of the HQ section in front have a propensity to have an expanded waste-line and grey hair is far from unusual.

They are terrified that Macron will start to weed out the army and bring down the average age and put a limit on the benefits and bonuses system that is currently in place with no equivalent anywhere in the private sector. And while a few decades ago having served in the military was a big help to getting hired almost anywhere, these days it's a byword for "Most likely unable to compete in the private sector because they are pampered civil servants with few useful skills."

So even if the promised budget increase is introduced, it will most likely be accompanied by a serious amount of reform, which will probably mean the end of the many perks soldiers enjoy at the moment.

Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2017 6:42 a.m. PST

During their intervention in Mali, France had to ask the U.S. to airlift some of its forces as it lacked the capacity to do so. I'm not sure how much further they can cut back and if a real crisis erupts, there is going to be little existing infrastructure left to expand upon.

doug redshirt20 Jul 2017 10:56 a.m. PST

Having served in the US military for 20 years, I get a little defensive when people talk about perks. I spent the first 10 years living pay check to pay check. Hard to raise a family on what you get payed. Got a little better as you work your way up the NCO ladder. But anyway being in the military put me 20 years behind the people who do the job I do now in the civilian world.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2017 11:29 a.m. PST

As in all French public sector, it is top heavy with lots of advatages… But not for all.
Everyone going out of their barracks gets extra pay, in "warzones" more than double ( even subs escorting Cv to put a few bombs on late for the school garage, sandal wearing toyota drivers.)

It costs a lot. The quasi handmade ( for the delayed short series) national hardware costs a lot to buy (Leclerc bought more than twice the price of a Leo) and even more to maintain with low spares if any.
Broken bankrupt clientelist states often start with "saving" on their mercenaries, more often than not paying a hard price later for it.

The long established system there as with the rest urgently needs a deep reshaping. Most EU armies are getting to be yet another bunch of graying public sector (shrinking) horde in uniform.

Otherwise a good 2/3 of the night non posh elite few units have the rank and file made up of chaps of non European ancestry. Ends up like the Romans;)

MajorB20 Jul 2017 1:09 p.m. PST

So much for their 2% of GDP as a NATO member.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2017 4:57 p.m. PST

Lol. I'm surprised their bean counters and top level cutters aren't using NATO as an excuse in some way, however ridiculous that excuse might be.


Garand21 Jul 2017 10:11 a.m. PST

Says according to this article that the budget is to go back up next year: link


Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2017 10:16 a.m. PST

Let's see. De Villiers clearly does not believe that.


Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2017 10:42 a.m. PST

For those reading French ther is an excellent article of the state of the F army and recent budget balderdash by former Col. Goya

USAFpilot Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2017 2:38 p.m. PST

Well, I guess the money needs to come from some where to pay for the wave of immigrants coming into France from countries we helped screw up.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2017 4:51 p.m. PST


I think that's where Macron intends to divert those funds. Just my guess.

PS. If someone that speaks French could please share the straight details coming out of France, it might help confirm or shoot down some of our speculations here. What I keep seeing about this topic on our English media is hardly useful.

Airborne Engineer22 Jul 2017 5:45 a.m. PST

"if a crisis comes up"?

They are already in the middle of a crisis. They are fighting a war with troops deployed to about a dozen countries. While facing an active insurgency in their own country and have had upwards of 115,000 troops deployed to protect targets in France. This is like cutting the military budget during the Sitzkreig period between the fall of Poland and the fall of France.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 6:13 a.m. PST

Airborne Engineer: "While facing an active insurgency in their own country and have had upwards of 115,000 troops deployed to protect targets in France."

I agree. France might be able to pull back troops from some of their foreign involvements, but I just don't see how they could suddenly make a drastic reduction on what they have deployed to combat the domestic threat, even if ISIS is eradicated in Syria. That cancer has already metastasized, and has cells spread throughout France and other parts of Europe and the globe.


greatpatton22 Jul 2017 8:27 a.m. PST

" have had upwards of 115,000 troops deployed to protect targets in France": The maximum number of troops of operation sentinelle was around 10'000 and is now under 7'000.

" While facing an active insurgency": Please are you serious? There is about 15x more death by firearm in the USA than victim of terrorism + death by firearm in France. So if France is facing an active insurgency I suppose that the US is in the middle of a civil war.

The current issue is that up to now the budget for external operation (Mali, Syria, Africa, etc.) was not financed by the military budget but by all the others. It had been decided to change this rule creating this 850M hole But mainly the issue is that France must comply to EU rule to have a deficit under 3% of GDP and it seams that the new President has decided to do enforce it.

"where to pay for the wave of immigrants coming into France": The spending for refugees in the French budget is around 1,2 billion €, or less than 0.3% of the budget. It has been around the same since the early 2010's.

US may have a huge military budget but the public debt is growing every year (106% of GDP)… and there is no plan to stop it.

USAFpilot Supporting Member of TMP22 Jul 2017 9:31 a.m. PST

A billion dollars there for that project and billion dollars for this project etc and pretty soon you are talking about some serious money. ;-)

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member22 Jul 2017 1:58 p.m. PST

i'm not on the spot as are our French posters..but i know something about France.
French Army , i'm sad to imagine that, will suffer a sort of débacle in the near future…for some reasons that many will not appreciate that i says but at a risk to be DH i 'll try to underline:
- as it happended in the police forces , the continuos influx of former immigrants and French of non European origin will create some problems in the future..think about Armée Francaise confronted Vs M East or N Africam extremists fighters as it happens in assymetrical wars..the will to fight of soldiers will be greatly hampered by religion concerns and , above all, to fear of retaliation also indirect vs their families
- the medias and politics are trying to send a very bad message to dsitrupt the historical appeal and respect French people had for their soldiers …something totally unespected happened in Calais that divided public opinion :

i must also say that, for somebody who travel big cities..the feeeling to be we on the verge of Civil War or something similar to occupied territories in Israel..this site that many consider a right wing unrealiable one is, any case, the most visited in France and images and above all videos of frequent agressions vs military could be find only there..the media in France are heavily controlled by the Govt and, as all we know, a military cannot also after leaving active duty critizise his Govt.

greatpatton23 Jul 2017 4:16 a.m. PST

Do you realize that French Army is composed of Muslim troops since almost 180 years? Spahi regiments originate directly from ottoman cavalry and Muslim troop fought all around the world for France, and even against other Muslims during the Algeria war of independence.

Anyway linking to a well known far-right extremist site is no the best way to make a point…

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member23 Jul 2017 5:04 a.m. PST

..but the situation has dramatically changed since….there is an internal emergency…as before me a French poster has pointed out there is a similarity with the late roman army…i'm not talking about muslim soldiers..i'm talking about something more broad…did you perceive how French Army is considered in the lands were is called to assure order?
do you think that in the near future French soldiers of African origin will be happy to enforce at gun point in the lands of teir ancestrors puppet leaders choosed by FMI like A Ouattara in stead of the free elected Gagbo?…do you think it'll still be possible to just order to assassinate charismal leaders elected by Africans like Thomas Sankara and then return in Africa enforcing the law with african soldiers?..i don't think so…just some examples…
as always and as many many did here you shift in politics!!!!!…the site i produced the link is not a far right one.!'s i explained before most followed site in France..that offer you alternative news above all trough videos..which could be an attempt to search for something similar to a neutral news…something like vikileaks…my interest in this site, of which i don't read articles, are the videos that i find only there…like for example videos taken in Syria and, as pointed out, videos depicting agressions vs French soldiers in Bordeau, Lyon ecc….

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP23 Jul 2017 5:58 a.m. PST

So you are predicting mutinies at some point in the near future, if such tests of loyalty and conscience continue?

I guess the test might become a bit too difficult and unbearable for those who were only first generation immigrant recruits, if their personal ties to a specific tribe were stronger than their new national ones. And what their motives for joining the army might have been.

I often wondered what my Dad's uncles, who fought as Spanish officers against the US in 1898, but were later recruited to lead men for the US abroad, would have done if they had been ordered to fire on their former countrymen for the US. That would have been a massive trial for them I think. It would have been a bit worse than the situation you describe though, seeing as how they were being recruited by the same power who defeated them just a few years earlier.

In the end this is just my guess. Maybe their loyalties had begun to shift already while they were still serving for Spain. There's just no way for me to know at this point what was in those men's hearts and what must have been going through their minds so many years ago.


tookey23 Inactive Member23 Jul 2017 1:47 p.m. PST

FdeSouche is a well known right wing site that only posts selected content to show immigrants in the worst possible light. I often see it trotted out as "evidence" for nationalist agenda or other weak arguments, a bit like info wars I think. Luckily the Deleted by Moderator showed that this closed thinking is not as popular as some think.

Deleted by Moderator

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member23 Jul 2017 4:25 p.m. PST

i'm not predicting mutinies ….i'm sorry but thanks to my bad english i was nt able enough to explain my point of view…
the title of the posting was referring to a crisis inside French Army and it relate it totally to budgetary my opinion the budgetary problems are a result non the cause…the cause is a strong crisis between the politics and the Army…there is , in my oppinion, an imminent or at least predicatble civil war issue in France…the various Gvts tried to underplay the problem…the top commanders of the army are extremely annoid by that…also the continuous drafting on non european recruits in France Armed Forces that will be called, in a near future, to open fire vs banlieux riots…not simply riots but armed riots..recent mass attacks vs Gendarmerie in Paris banlieux were carried out by Kalashnikov armed extremist..just see the site i linked….would an army, betrayed by his politics, not allowed by constitution to protest, deligimated and formed also out of soldiers of same religion and national origin of the rioters that, has already happened with police tried to retaliate Vs families of the soldiers, be able to face what will be a CIVIL WAR?.
Tookey you are talking about immigrants not me…your approach seem more on a racist diatribe than mine…i'm absolutly entitled to say my world about this topic…which is , as JFrog said, French Army is becoming similar to late Roman one …plus the fact that they will have to face a Civil War with soldiers certainly reliable in front of the Republic but not fitted to fire against banlieux rioters….if my point disturbs so much you it's because i said the the very unpolitically correct truth…

tookey23 Inactive Member24 Jul 2017 9:16 p.m. PST

Ethnicity based civil war in France is just another extremist theory pushed to nationalist agenda. As greatpatton, these troops have been in militaire for centuries yet for some reason is only a major issue for a select group of people now.

No such hysteria for rectal cancer yet.

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member25 Jul 2017 3:36 a.m. PST

First: Ethnicity based civil war? is your definition or your obsession?…the reality is another…there is nt any theory about a civil war..there is already a beginning of Civil War..a war is a war…and i suppose that also if tookey wants that nobody said that ..sooner or later kalashnikov and bombs will been in any case perceived also by those that are 'nt on the receiving end
Second: again and again using the therm Nationalism as it was a bad thing…are 'n you nationalist? are you a stateless person?..or you just want that everybody comply with your cultural bizarre approach?…
Third: Histerial rectal cancer…i hope you do not suffer from that but it'sn something to which making jokes…do 'nt you think so?

greatpatton25 Jul 2017 7:01 a.m. PST

"already a beginning of Civil War."

A beginning of civil war? Are you in any way serious? Do you think that France is looking like former Yugoslavia or Kosovo? Pointing at a few terrorist events doesn't make your dream come true, and if you have a look at this page: link you will see that the only one having used multiple bomb this year are nationalist in Corsica…

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member25 Jul 2017 12:32 p.m. PST

You have to read in French or it sufficient that you scroll for video evidences in the last 4 or 5 years into the site i linked that somebody here do not want to be shown

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member25 Jul 2017 12:51 p.m. PST

I said..the with clashes in occupied zones in Israel (of course i side with Israel) or the very beginning in jugoslavja or the first shots vs Seguridade in Romania

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member25 Jul 2017 12:58 p.m. PST

My "dream to come true" is to let you think on evidence not slogans and to appease your rage …but it seem a difficult task as you seem , as you sort out only insults, prisoner of your political agenda

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2017 12:53 p.m. PST

Ethnic civil war is precisely what isis strategists want, as found in their sort of "white paper" taken from one of the leaders' computer in some raid a few years ago.
The vast majority of Africans origins ( says 20+% of the population, 40% of under 25) do not give a fig. But the one thing intel fears, is one or more mass unbearable slaughter like kids etc. that will unleash the cretins of all sides and push this mass into the arms of their "fighting brothers".

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member31 Jul 2017 3:30 a.m. PST

"the cretins of all sides " ?????..if one side is clearly kalashnikov and pistol armed rioters from banlieux that have already fired on Police and sheltered terrorists that killed military in Toulouse…which is the other side that you dare to label "cretins" the very Forme Repubblicaine or the victims or terrorism?

Risaldar Singh01 Aug 2017 12:10 p.m. PST

Yawn. I'm out of popcorn. I think I'll settle for saucisson…

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member01 Aug 2017 3:41 p.m. PST

or pommes frites…

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