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"Well Doctor Who is Now a Female" Topic


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Mithmee Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 9:43 a.m. PST

he BBC on Sunday revealed Jodie Whittaker as the 13th Doctor for hit series Doctor Who.

She will be the first female lead for the sci-fi series on the U.K. public broadcaster.

link

Well this will end up killing the series.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 10:13 a.m. PST

Nah, it'll be fine – I have faith in the viewership being broadminded and open to new ideas.

Anyway, they laid the groundwork for this with Missy.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 10:46 a.m. PST

It's not about what they are doing. It's about why.

It's like the comic book industry suddenly making female superheroes to please non-readers, and then end up alienating those who are.

Of course, if you object or question this move, you better brace yourself for some colorful language and harsh labels.

Dan

Personal logo cloudcaptain Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:00 a.m. PST

I have zero issues with female characters. I have HUGE issues with the Doctor regenerating into a female. What's next…a male Romana? Thanks for crapping on my childhood.

I mean jump back in the timeline and run with lady Timelord for gosh sakes.

"being broadminded and open to new ideas"

Yep…because rampant sexuality added so much to the series in Torchwood.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:03 a.m. PST

Rampant sexuality?

What – like William Hartnell ?

wink

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:09 a.m. PST

CloudCaptain: "I have zero issues with female characters. I have HUGE issues with the Doctor regenerating into a female. What's next…a male Romana? Thanks for crapping on my childhood."

Careful, now. You are starting to sound a lot like me on this other discussion.

TMP link

Dan :)

Personal logo cloudcaptain Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:16 a.m. PST

Nah man…like the "Harkness makes out with Spike" Buffy crossover mess. Sooo predictable. Won a bet on that one actually.

It gets me ire up. Don't mean for it to sound directed.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:24 a.m. PST

What could possibly go wrong here?

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:25 a.m. PST

They also have a new show runner, so hopefully the moffat crap is at an end.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:42 a.m. PST

StoneMtnMinis: "What could possibly go wrong here?"

I've been hearing that phrase a lot lately. :)

Dan

Personal logo Dentatus Supporting Member of TMP Fezian16 Jul 2017 11:47 a.m. PST

A female Doctor isn't a concern. I'm sure a healthy dose of Handwaveium will explain the regeneration. From what I've seen, that actress is certainly competent. It's what the writers do with the show that will make or break.

And I agree: gave up on Torchwood when omnivorous sexuality became the dominant theme. As opposed to oh, say…science fiction.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:51 a.m. PST

So will the Master go back to a male persona – or stay with the girls

napthyme Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 11:55 a.m. PST

actually this is not a new concept for Doctor Who it was discussed back in the 80's about was it possible for a timelord to change genders during a regen.

Mithmee Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 12:00 p.m. PST

Well when the show loses viewers they will only have themselves to blame.

They think that this a great idea.

Well its not.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 12:19 p.m. PST

What's Doctor Who? Some game show?

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 12:20 p.m. PST

I think its a great idea. can't wait to see how well it turns out and looking forward to the doubters eating their words :)

Huscarle Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 12:58 p.m. PST

I can only agree with Mithmee & others, it's a really dumb idea, if they wanted a Time Lady, then they should have done a spin-off series with either Romana or better still, Jenny (the doctor's daughter).

Perhaps they should have retired the doctor; after all you can only run around the Universe so long before it's time to settle down. They could then have passed the baton onto another Time Lord/Lady.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 1:03 p.m. PST

+1 David Manley

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 1:04 p.m. PST

They could then have passed the baton onto another Time Lord/Lady

Bit difficult without Gallifrey.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 2:12 p.m. PST

In all these decades that the series has been running on tv, has the Doctor ever played "doctor" on the show?

Well, if they ever do a show in which this new version gets pregnant, maybe she'll produce a new kind of Dalek hybrid and bring peace and harmony to the universe.

Dan
link

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 3:29 p.m. PST

Long overdue!

I've been hoping Emma Thompson would get the part, but maybe in the future ^,^

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 4:00 p.m. PST

With my faith renewed in Emma Thompson by her performance in Alone In Berlin, I think you're right : she'd be a good doctor.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 4:24 p.m. PST

Anyway – as this shows YouTube link the female Dr has already been addressed quite adequately.

shirleylyn Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 5:06 p.m. PST

Big Big Who fan here and I have to say this is stupid. No reason for the good doctor to be female.

stupid.

tinned fruit Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 5:25 p.m. PST

Hope she gets better scripts that the stuff Capaldi had to deal with – she was awesome in Attack the Block.

Is gender still such an issue in 2017?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 7:58 p.m. PST

Tinned Fruit,

Gender itself? No. You can create new characters in any gender you want. What do they pay writers for?

Switching a gender for an established character? Well that is really the issue here, specially if it's for no other reason except just to prove inclusivity. That's the point people are choosing to ignore in their haste to point fingers and label people archaic.

Hmm, I think I'm going to run for Miss America now. Or maybe I could play the part of Dorothy in a big budget remake of Wizard of Oz.

Dan

Personal logo Narratio Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 8:07 p.m. PST

The whole cross gender thing for the Gallifreyans has been set up several times. It's been a possibility since Tennant was the Doctor and the last being Missy with "…I knew him when he was just a little girl".

(Most of us dismissed that comment as silliness because if he had once been a girl, that inserts a number into the lineup pre-Hartnell, so the 10th Doctor was really the 11th and 11 was 12 and the whole regeneration thing goes 'boom'. But it's there like a poison toad in the fruit punch).

Nope, just bring on the doctor. 'Cos even when it's bad, it's good.

mwindsorfw Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 8:09 p.m. PST

No problem with it. I'm anxious to see what they do with it.

Personal logo cloudcaptain Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 8:33 p.m. PST

Gender isn't the real issue…it's uprooting the character. I wouldn't want K-9 to be a real dog. The doctor shouldn't pack an SMG.

Red Sonja shouldn't be male either.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 9:21 p.m. PST

Cloud Captain: "Red Sonja shouldn't be male either"

Why not? What's wrong with it? As long as the hair is red, what does it matter? :)

YouTube link

Dan

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP16 Jul 2017 10:14 p.m. PST

Nothing against the actress (who I am not familiar with at all), or the concept of female lead characters. I'm only concerned that this seems just another misbegotten reboot of an established MALE character that was already a success.

I'd be more impressed if this didn't seem like a surrender to the caterwauling for tokenism. "It's time for a female Doctor! It's time for a black Doctor! It's time for an XXXX Doctor!" Like somebody's bucket list of Doctors is being scratched off.

I only intermittently watch Doctor Who anyway. And I checked out again after Smith and Gillan left the series. But I won't be surprised if this 13th Doctor is not successful. The show's had a pretty good run in recent years, perhaps the pendulum is due to swing the other way, so to speak.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 4:55 a.m. PST

that inserts a number into the lineup pre-Hartnell, so the 10th Doctor was really the 11th and 11 was 12 and the whole regeneration thing goes 'boom'.

Don't forget that the War Doctor has already done this – there was a Dr before Eccleston and after McGann.

Hope she gets better scripts that the stuff Capaldi had to deal with

I thought the last season had seen Capaldi finally get some quality stories – such a shame as he was at last being the Doctor I always hoped he might be. Oh well…all change!

Rapier Miniatures Inactive Member17 Jul 2017 6:15 a.m. PST

Right let us deal with this in order.

This does not Bleeped text on your childhood, because you are no longer a child.

50% of the planet is female, get over it.

Always been a man, Deleted by Moderator

Grow up and grow a pair and stop whinging, and if you don't like it, don't watch it, because you are not actually the target audience, nor the audience they are after.

Redmenace Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 6:43 a.m. PST

I'll watch an episode before I decide if I love or hate it.

boy wundyr x Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 6:52 a.m. PST

Starbuck and Boomer survived gender changes (Boomer changed gender and race); it's going to depend on how, and how well, the stories are told. But hand-wringers are going to wring hands in their safe spaces. Kind of funny there's this uproar for a character who is fundamentally premised on changing actors every few years.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 8:37 a.m. PST

Lol. You guys crack me up.

Dan

picture

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 9:34 a.m. PST

Rapier,

So, is that really the direction you want to take this topic into now?

Dan

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 11:06 a.m. PST

Although he said it a little more strongly than I would have, I'd go alone with the spirit of the post.

It's a bit like that episode a few weeks back where there was a non-white Victorian soldier fighting the Ice Warriors on Mars…..hands thrown up in disgust at the non-historical nature of a non-white Victorian soldier fighting the Ice Warriors on Mars

This is a Science Fantasy series, anything can happen and it does.

I've been watching since Jon Pertwee, and I'm not upset. My childhood hasn't been desecrated by this editorial decision.

ordinarybass17 Jul 2017 11:18 a.m. PST

It's about time.

-Got no problem with it.

-Great selection of a very good actress.

-It's not going to screw anything up. Dr Who has already proved it can survive minor or massive leaps of all varieties.

-Whether it's being done just to mix things up or to "inclusively" put some another female lead into mostly male-dominated roles I've got no issue with either.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 12:06 p.m. PST

To be positive, it will free up a number of hours of time on Saturday evenings next year.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 12:10 p.m. PST

20thMaine: "Although he said it a little more strongly than I would have, I'd go alone with the spirit of the post."

Are you talking about the political comment or about what you can still read? If you mean the former, then I agree with the spirit of Pzvih43's reply. And the letter. :)

And, as for the discussion about the Ice Warriors on Mars episode, I posted a link to that thread above.

Dan
PS. I guess no one has a problem with me trying out for the roles I posted about earlier in this thread:
"Hmm, I think I'm going to run for Miss America now. Or maybe I could play the part of Dorothy in a big budget remake of Wizard of Oz."

Personal logo herkybird Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 12:18 p.m. PST

More importantly, we have finally got rid of Steven Moffat as chief writer/editor. He is a good writer, but needs editorial control to produce it.
Maybe we will get stories that are not fiendishly, and unnecessarily complicated!

Mithmee Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 12:44 p.m. PST

What everyone is forgetting is that once they turn him into a female there is no going back.

They did this for one reason only.

What next?

Batwoman instead of Batman

They are pushing this Gender thing over the edge.

This will lose fans but they do not care about that because they have agendas.

Personal logo cloudcaptain Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 12:48 p.m. PST

@Rapier

That's the beauty. We both get opinions. I'll extend you the courtesy of remaining civil.

Rapier Miniatures Inactive Member17 Jul 2017 2:24 p.m. PST

I am not sure civil is the option anymore, first you complain about the Dr becoming female, and then about a gay kiss.

It is a show from a different country with different values, if any of these things offend you, watch something else, I understand reruns of Everybody loves Raymond or the Cosby show are available for your viewing.

And yes Mithmee I am sorry if Deleted by Moderator

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 3:29 p.m. PST

If the series requires a strong female lead, perhaps they should have introduced a "permenant" companion who is female, intelligent, and can hold her own in any situation. That would give each new Dr. kind of an "anchor" or support as he adjusts after each re-generation.

As a side note the series lost us with matt smith, but we started watching again with Capaldi, especially his last season.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 3:58 p.m. PST

What everyone is forgetting is that once they turn him into a female there is no going back.

Of course there is. Although there may be a string of female Doctors over the next decade. But we've had a string of males so far, so that's hardly an issue.

It is a show from a different country with different values

I was going to agree with this – but then I recalled The 100 which is also admirably reflective of a more accepting and tolerant outlook. So, I do agree – but there are positive signs coming out of the USA as well. The Handmaid's Tale is also doing a fine job in this direction.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 4:05 p.m. PST

Cacique Caribe : the political comment was neither here nor there (in fact it's gorn' !). What I was agreeing with was the suggestion that casting a woman is ok in a world where half the population are women. And also that Dr Who is a very fluid series – it has changed a lot over the years: Captain Jack would not have been asked to travel with the First Doctor since homosexuality was still a crime in the UK at that time. Time marches on – we become more tolerant of others, we accept that treating women with anything less than full equality is wrong.

In short we are more Vulcan in our outlook ("I rejoice in our differences").

Personal logo cloudcaptain Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 5:37 p.m. PST

@Rapier

I don't like fundamental changes to a favorite childhood character. I didn't appreciate the contrived sexuality in Torchwood. I could care less what sex/gender is involved. Just felt strongly about not liking the core change. You assume I am a homophobe and mysogonist. Then you assume to make a blanket statement about the values of the entire countries? Eh. It's pointless. You are entitled to your opinions whatever they may be.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP17 Jul 2017 6:52 p.m. PST

20thMaine,

You keep trying to make this about tolerance and equality when that's not the issue. Most of us here already said that, but you keep trying to paint any opposition to the switch of the character as if it was a if it was opposition to tolerance or equality.

The issue is about changing an existing character into something it has never been, and something it was never meant to be. And that the change isn't part of a natural plot development but, instead, PC driven. THAT'S the issue.

It's the same issue that would come up if a regular rugged man were to be given the title of Miss Universe or the part of Dorothy in a big budget remake of Wizard of Oz simply for PC reasons (to demonstrate how "progressive" they are, that it was about time that such a thing were done and accepted). I bet you wouldn't be thrilled about those changes, and I have a feeling that you would resent being called intolerant or against gender equality if you objected.

Dan

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